Players not knowing the rules

[chrisd]

Well this is certainly interesting ground to tread on

I’m always in the belief that anyone starting golf must carry out a basic rule course if they are intending on playing in comps and getting a HC

It’s a self governing sport so we should all be responsible in knowing the basic rules

Flippin eck Phil, I find myself agreeing with you yet again

 

[Pants]

There's a worry

 

[jim8flog]

This is the reason, in my earlier post, I said I didn’t know the rule and checked on my phone, I had an issue this week people insisting the handicap allowance for 4BBB was 90% of the difference, I knew they were wrong and stood my ground and insisted we calculated the correct way.

We keep a poster on the handicaps and comps noticeboard with an explanation of how to calculate this. It was put there well before the WHS started.

We had a big disagreement once in an away interclub match because their handicap guy had got it wrong.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

At what point are you deemed to have broken a rule? Say you think you get two club lengths but it's actually one, and you drop 1.5 club lengths away. If someone says, "woah, it's only one club length" and you pick it up and redrop, is that ok? Is the penalty incurred once you've played your next shot?

This often causes a lot of confusion and I'm glad you have raised it. In the above situation, if you drop 0.5 clublengths further away than you are supposed to then it is an additional 0.5 penalty shots to be applied. However, what people don't know is whether that 0.5 extra penalty is rounded up or down. Thanks to WHS and having exact handicap indexes, it is now much easier. If your handicap is 20.1 the additional 0.5 would take you to 20.6 so you round up. If you were 20.7 the 0.5 would take you to 21.2 so you round down.


Hope this helps

 

[nickjdavis]

The point I was making was more about players not knowing fairly basic rules rather than a discussion on the scenario.

I understand your original point but my response was specifically to lilyhawks post where (s)he described the confusion of various different opinions that often appeared on a rules thread.

 

[jim8flog]

This often causes a lot of confusion and I'm glad you have raised it. In the above situation, if you drop 0.5 clublengths further away than you are supposed to then it is an additional 0.5 penalty shots to be applied. However, what people don't know is whether that 0.5 extra penalty is rounded up or down. Thanks to WHS and having exact handicap indexes, it is now much easier. If your handicap is 20.1 the additional 0.5 would take you to 20.6 so you round up. If you were 20.7 the 0.5 would take you to 21.2 so you round down.


Hope this helps

err what

what rules book do you read?

 

[Backsticks]

err what

what rules book do you read?

Its just an example. Of course its not always 0.5, but depends on the distance. 2 club length drop if it should be 1 club length is a full penalty shot etc. The rules forum guys will explain it better.

 

[jim8flog]

Its just an example. Of course its not always 0.5, but depends on the distance. 2 club length drop if it should be 1 club length is a full penalty shot etc. The rules forum guys will explain it better.

I really do not know where this is coming from

From the rule book

Penalty for Playing Ball from a Wrong Place in Breach of Rule 15.2: General Penalty
Under Rule 14.7a.

Penalty for Playing Ball from a Wrong Place in Breach of Rule 14.7a:
General Penalty.

• General Penalty (Loss of Hole in Match Play, Two-Stroke Penalty in Stroke
Play). This penalty applies for a breach of most Rules, where the potential
advantage is more significant than where only one penalty stroke applies.

 

[Imurg]

We need a proper sarcasm smiley.......

 

[Dando]

Flippin eck Phil, I find myself agreeing with you yet again

You’ve not taken your meds again haven’t you

 

[chrisd]

You’ve not taken your meds again haven’t you

Well that might explain everything!

 

[bobmac]

The rules forum guys will explain it better.

No they won't, most of them never stray very far from the rules room and rarely contribute on any other thread.
If you want the advice from a self proclaimed rules expert, you'll have to move this thread into the rules section

 

[Ians_sporting_bro]

At what point are you deemed to have broken a rule? Say you think you get two club lengths but it's actually one, and you drop 1.5 club lengths away. If someone says, "woah, it's only one club length" and you pick it up and redrop, is that ok? Is the penalty incurred once you've played your next shot?

As no-one seems to have answered this qustion except sarcstically, here's my view...... You are only ever penalised when you actually play a shot that is illegal or follows uncorrected illegal action. So in the above scenario the answer to both questions is 'Yes'.

 

[Ians_sporting_bro]

Perhaps more frustrating is the player who insists he knows the rules but gets them slightly wrong. I had an experience of this the other week with a player who correctly took a Water Penalty drop but just before he played, declared it a Provisional ( he wasn’t sure that it was in the water). He then decided that, loudly and repeatedly over-talking my attempt at trying to explain his error, was an acceptable way of proving he was correct. The following three holes were played in strained silence as he spent his time on ( I presume) the R&A site checking the rules. He eventually admitted he was wrong, but did not apologise. It was quite satisfying to win 6 and 4. I then mischievously bought him and his partner a drink in the bar.

Surely, the proper response to it being declared provisional is to point out that a provisional ball must be played from where the original ball was last played - aka stroke and distance! FWIW, playing a provisional ball for a ball that may be in a water hazard IS OK - but only if it may be lost elsewhere.

The issue theabove raises is what happens if the first ball IS in the WH, but can't be found or known to be in the WH. However, as the cost of having played a provisional outweighs, by a further shot, that of applying WH rule, that seems ok to me. I would, however, confirm oppo's agreement to that before he announces and plays the provisional.

I always carry a copy of Rules of Golf in my bag. If there's any issue where I'm certain of my view, I'm happy to toss the book to the oppo and challenge him to prove me wrong - normally with a pint as stake.

 

[NearHull]

Surely, the proper response to it being declared provisional is to point out that a provisional ball must be played from where the original ball was last played - aka stroke and distance! FWIW, playing a provisional ball for a ball that may be in a water hazard IS OK - but only if it may be lost elsewhere.

The issue theabove raises is what happens if the first ball IS in the WH, but can't be found or known to be in the WH. However, as the cost of having played a provisional outweighs, by a further shot, that of applying WH rule, that seems ok to me. I would, however, confirm oppo's agreement to that before he announces and plays the provisional.

I always carry a copy of Rules of Golf in my bag. If there's any issue where I'm certain of my view, I'm happy to toss the book to the oppo and challenge him to prove me wrong - normally with a pint as stake.

You are correct in summarising the issue. My problem was he wouldn’t let me speak to explain from where he should’ve have played his provisional ball, - he just constantly “overspoke” me using a load voice.

 

[Ians_sporting_bro]

You are correct in summarising the issue. My problem was he wouldn’t let me speak to explain from where he should’ve have played his provisional ball, - he just constantly “overspoke” me using a load voice.

My experience has generally been 'the louder the voice, the weaker the argument'. The best response I know is to simply laugh!

 

[Slab]

My experience has generally been 'the louder the voice, the weaker the argument'. The best response I know is to simply laugh!

It could be said, tossing rule books, making challenges and issuing bets is a pretty 'loud voice'

 

[Ians_sporting_bro]

Without knowing what was red and what was yellow - that's exactly how I would have proceeded anyway. So I guess @sunshine was right, why not just have one set of rules without the red and yellow nonsense?

If you check this vid out

you should be able to see the reasoning for the difference. Though I agree that simply having the single (Red Stake) option would simplify Rules and Hazard marking without, imo, causing any issue. Oh and you'll be reminded of the wonderful voice of Peter Alliss.

 

[Backsticks]

If you check this vid out

you should be able to see the reasoning for the difference. Though I agree that simply having the single (Red Stake) option would simplify Rules and Hazard marking without, imo, causing any issue. Oh and you'll be reminded of the wonderful voice of Peter Alliss.

I cant see it. If the yellow section were red, what is the problem ? What unfair gain is than seen to offer ?

 

[nickjdavis]

I understood that the general recommendation, made to clubs, when the 2019 rules came out, was that all penalty areas should be "red" so that all relief options were available.