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[HawkeyeMS]

Tiger, I've said before that I admire what you are trying to do and hope you are successful but you have to appreciate peoples concerns.

Many forum members will come on here and post about shooting their best round or getting a cut or a 1st handicap but all we seem to hear from you is, have I got the right shaft or loft or lie or angle and nothing about how you are actually playing. Maybe your blog explains this, I haven't had chance to read it but your posts on here suggest you are getting way too distracted by getting the perfect equipment.

There are a lot of folk on this forum who have spent a long time getting to their current handicap and the general consensus seems to be that you are getting too involved.

I'm sure you do practice, maybe you are getting better but I think peoples response to your posts are because it seems as though you are trying to perfect the inperfectable.

Nothing wrong with understanding the equipment but you clearly come in here looking for advice and you have to accept you might not like the advice you get.

Personally, I think you're getting to involved with the technicalities, I don't think you need a 60deg wedge and I think no matter how perfect you get your clubs right now, if you swing improves the way it needs to to get to scratch in 5 years, you're gonna be replacing it in 2 years and that seems like a waste of money to me.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here, I mean no offense, just trying to explain how I see it.

 

[Imurg]

And the only reason I'm looking for a 60 this year is because of the rule change.

The rule change?
Tiger - the rule change for wedges and grooves applies to the Professional game only at the moment. Elite amateurs get clobbered next but us mere mortals can use any wedge we like until 2024 at the earliest. They can't make wedges with "box" grooves after this year but we can still use them for another 14.

 

[CannyFifer]

all i'd like to say mate is you must be some player to have an 18 hc without a wood or even a rescue in you're bag. either that you can hit that 3 iron some distance and putt every shot as you are only 1 over per hole unless you are holing every par 3 from the tee. just my opinion

 

[Tiger]

Imurg I know that's why I want to buy one so I have it to use got the next 14 years!!!

Hawkeye I post most of the stuff relating to rounds on the blog and only really start threads on here when I'm seeking advice or speaking more generally. In my defence I actually started the thread to praise the wonderful rep from ping but people wanted more info about the wedge issue.

In terms of major breakthroughs the key thing holding me back is performance off the tee as I'm currently hitting 4/5 iron. Short game is getting much better though.

Funny thing is I agree with most of you on most things. I actually think I'm not ready for a 60 just think I should get one before they stop making the old grooves. So far thanks to you guys keeping me in check I have worked harder on managing distances and choking down etc. I've sped up introducing a 3 Wood into my bag, I've put getting a DMD firmly on the backburner, I got a chipping lesson (mainly Homer that one), I've simplified the Pelz 3x4 approach to only work on my half swing with my 3 wedges to name but a few.

Trust me I listen to everything you guys say and take a lot on board

 

[Tiger]

all i'd like to say mate is you must be some player to have an 18 hc without a wood or even a rescue in you're bag. either that you can hit that 3 iron some distance and putt every shot as you are only 1 over per hole unless you are holing every par 3 from the tee. just my opinion

you've lost me? 18h/c? I think I could threaten one if I had a 3 wood that I kept in play regularly but first I need to get one and second learn how to use it.

I hit my 4 iron about 200 yard. But tend to use my 5 more often as it's more consistent. I have no handicap yet should have one by August.

 

[CannyFifer]

I do practice at least three times a week (four if I'm lucky) and play 18.

sorry mate, thought this was your reply to the handicap question posted before My mistake

 

[Golfmmad]

In terms of major breakthroughs the key thing holding me back is performance off the tee as I'm currently hitting 4/5 iron.

Tiger, can I add my thoughts?

Forget the 4/5 irons off the tee, unless on par 3's of course, get yourself a driver - big dog, as you put it in an earlier post. You may of noticed that I don't have a 3 wood in my bag, why, because I've always struggled with one off the tee and find a driver much easier to hit.

Why don't you try one? You could ask your Pro to tape one up for you to try on the next 18 holes you play. You might just be pleasantly surprised.

Golfmmad.

 

[Golfmmad]

Oh I forgot to say,

Wedges, I don't have any yet, just a pitching wedge and a sand iron.

And a good mate I regularly play with doesn't possess any either, just a PW and sand iron - he plays off 13!

Golfmmad.

 

[Leftie]

Just a couple of observations, young sir.

Lob wedge = Blob wedge. Forget it until you have a mid to low single figure h/cap. It will cost you more shots than you save.

The new groove regulations will make practically no difference to most golfers in most situations. Don't believe all the marketing hype. At least one manufacturer has already jumped on the bandwagon seeing ££££££'s in front of their eyes e.g. Callaway are now marketing their new range of balls as being designed to work better with the new grooves thus obviating the change.

Sellers of golf equipment make their money by selling punters new golf equipment when there is nothing wrong with what they have already got. All they have to do is put doubt in your mind.

Oh. And all the other constructive stuff peeps have mentioned....

 

[Tiger]

In terms of major breakthroughs the key thing holding me back is performance off the tee as I'm currently hitting 4/5 iron.

Tiger, can I add my thoughts?

Forget the 4/5 irons off the tee, unless on par 3's of course, get yourself a driver - big dog, as you put it in an earlier post. You may of noticed that I don't have a 3 wood in my bag, why, because I've always struggled with one off the tee and find a driver much easier to hit.

Why don't you try one? You could ask your Pro to tape one up for you to try on the next 18 holes you play. You might just be pleasantly surprised.

Golfmmad.

canny: you're alright was just confused how you arrived at a 18h/c but that makes sense.

Golfmmad: I hit a few balls for the PING rep yesterday and he said I should wait till autumn when my swing has developed a bit more and then look to get a driver.

Leftie: I am in a real quandary over the blob wedge. I suppose because I like the pelz approach I was more inclined to get one. We have a demo at our club so I will borrow that a few more times to see how much I actually would use it and whether I can use it before making any decisions.

Groove rules or not I do have ages to make any changes. So new plan is to see how things go for the next two months and then see if I need to make any changes.

As always really helpful thoughts guys

 

[bobmac]

Wedges, I don't have any yet, just a pitching wedge and a sand iron .

And a good mate I regularly play with doesn't possess any either, just a PW and sand iron - he plays off 13!

Golfmmad.

I'm confused (which is not difficult)
You have a PW and a Sw but you dont have any wedges?

 

[CrapHacker]

The new groove regulations will make practically no difference to most golfers in most situations. Don't believe all the marketing hype. At least one manufacturer has already jumped on the bandwagon seeing ££££££'s in front of their eyes e.g. Callaway are now marketing their new range of balls as being designed to work better with the new grooves thus obviating the change.

Sellers of golf equipment make their money by selling punters new golf equipment when there is nothing wrong with what they have already got. All they have to do is put doubt in your mind.

I'd listen to this guy.

He must be both a genius and an expert to use words like 'obviating'.

 

[CrapHacker]

The real kick in the teeth is the misplaced faith but as I said you lives and learns.

Oh, and I'd think twice about this as well.

You may be right, and your pro is a money grabbing chancer.

Or he might just be a typical Mars bar pusher who listens to what you want, and gives you the simplest solution for your swing at the moment.

It's possible that when you got your clubs you suggested that you were a beginner with fantastically difficult targets.

If he then thinks that his first job is to get you a reapeatable swing ASAP it'll be easier for you to make full swings with your wedges if they are set up the same way as your other irons.

For most people at your stage of development, half swings, and 3/4 swings with three different wedges is so far off the radar.

Whereas a solid stance, decent grip, and repeatable swingpath with a full swing is what most people concentrate on.

I don't know him, so I can't tell. I've run into a few dodgy pros over the years, but my instincts made me steer well clear of them from day one, and I've found loads more guys who are top notch, even if they aren't suited to my strange personality. If you trusted this guy before, I'd at least give him the chance to explain himself before you give up on him.

( Having said that, if his name is 'Bob', I'd steer well clear - never known anyone have a good word to say about anyone called 'Bob'. Especially golf pros. )

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hey Tiger, fair enough mate. Maybe I'll read your blog

As for this...

Leftie: I am in a real quandary over the blob wedge. I suppose because I like the pelz approach I was more inclined to get one. We have a demo at our club so I will borrow that a few more times to see how much I actually would use it and whether I can use it before making any decisions.

I am a big fan of the Pelz's approach as well, however, if I have one criticism of the Pelz it is that he encourages golfers to play shot's and use club's that they do not have the skill to play. I had my 60deg wedge before I discovered Pelz's and was already quite good with it so the clock system was just a way of being more consistent. Pelz's doesn't say this (I don't think) and why would he, he's trying to sell books, but his approach should be aimed at players of a certain level, those who already strike the ball pretty well and have a handicap of no more than 13 or 14. Asking a 28 handicapper to hit the ball consistently with a 64deg wedge is, IMO, asking them to commit golfing suicide and will not reduce their scores.

If I didn't have mine already, I wouldn't be rushing out to buy one.

I would argue that there are no times in your round that you can't play the shot with another club and that leaving yourself an extra few yards on a putt is far better than taking another pitch or chip which would be the result of hitting a 60 badly. There are also very few lies on the course which I would consider using the 60, anything deeper than the shortest 1st cut of rough you have to consider using less loft.

I have often considered the need to carry it but as I said, I've had it for years and I like it but I know for a fact that if someone said I wasn't allowed to use it anymore, I could learn to replace the shots I use it for with another wedge.

I honestly believe that you don't need it and it will cost you more shots that it gains.

 

[Tiger]

Whereas a solid stance, decent grip, and repeatable swingpath with a full swing is what most people concentrate on.

I don't know him, so I can't tell. I've run into a few dodgy pros over the years, but my instincts made me steer well clear of them from day one, and I've found loads more guys who are top notch, even if they aren't suited to my strange personality. If you trusted this guy before, I'd at least give him the chance to explain himself before you give up on him.

Hey CH, understand your thinking but he's used up his nine lives. It's not so much the wedges (where I think you might be right) it's more what he did with the Driver. He doesn't know about the Project he just knows I want to work hard and improve my handicap. When I went to him for advice on which shaft to get in my fairway he had me hitting Drivers. I don't want a Driver but he must know what he was doing. At the end of the session he had concluded that I should get a Rombax 7Z08 shaft in a Titleist D2 when I get my driver and suggested the Axivcore shaft in the G15 fairway.

That's a serious performance shaft in a better players head. I'm a 28 handicapper!!!! Now I was hitting it straighter than the other combinations but surely that was more about negating poor technique. You should have seen the PING fitters eyes when I told him.

I've got one more pre paid lesson with him and at the end I'll ask him to explain himself and see what he says, but I'm not that impressed anymore

 

[CrapHacker]

Fair enough. That's all anyone can ask.

If he's a twonk, he's a twonk.

 

[viscount17]

I don't get the angst over lob wedges, I love mine. True when I first got it (won it in a raffle) I would thin it but I could thin any wedge just as easily.
It's another of these high-handicappers shouldn't myths - if you listen to them you'll psych yourself out of hitting driver, lob wedge and who knows what else.

I 'couldn't' hit a fairway - until I tried a couple and bought one (MX700 3-wood) then stuck it 230 yards through the back of a green - it's all in the mind.

 

[Tiger]

I don't get the angst over lob wedges, I love mine. True when I first got it (won it in a raffle) I would thin it but I could thin any wedge just as easily.
It's another of these high-handicappers shouldn't myths - if you listen to them you'll psych yourself out of hitting driver, lob wedge and who knows what else.

I 'couldn't' hit a fairway - until I tried a couple and bought one (MX700 3-wood) then stuck it 230 yards through the back of a green - it's all in the mind.

Funny thing is I don't tend to hit my wedges on full shots and prefer hitting half shots and chips. I rarely thin them my problem is either duff it or get a good connection but 'overcook' it and run past the hole. I suppose that's where the allure with the LW started in that I could get away with it more if I hit it a bit long.

I hope I'm hitting my 3 Wood 230 yards when it arrives. If I could do that consistently and avoid trouble more often I could well be in business.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I don't get the angst over lob wedges, I love mine. True when I first got it (won it in a raffle) I would thin it but I could thin any wedge just as easily.
It's another of these high-handicappers shouldn't myths - if you listen to them you'll psych yourself out of hitting driver, lob wedge and who knows what else.

I 'couldn't' hit a fairway - until I tried a couple and bought one (MX700 3-wood) then stuck it 230 yards through the back of a green - it's all in the mind.

Actually, it's not a myth. It's advice to a guy who plays off 28 but currently has no official handicap and wants to play off scratch in 5 years time. He's already told us he works in London and has a young son so I would imagine his practice time is limited and he's already 5 months into his project.

A 60deg+ wedge is harder to hit and less versatile, I don't think anyone would argue with that so why bother with it until your ball striking is better. Why put a club in your bag that you know is likely to cost you shots when you can play those shots with a different wedge with more consistency. It's the same theory that people use putting from the fringe instead of chipping, you will be more consistent. If I remember rightly, the Pelz's book, which I know Tiger is a fan of, also demonstrates that hitting less loft for chipping and pitching is more consistent than hitting more loft, so why would you want to make yourself less consistent?

I'm pretty sure Tiger has already said that he intends to use it from 50 yards in but that's only any good if you're on the fairway with a decent lie. If you're on a fluffy or tight lie you would use another wedge\iron and you could use that other wedge from the fairway as well. If you want a shot you can hit from 50 yards use your SW, PW, 7 or 8 iron, practice hitting it from 50 yards from different lies, why add the complication of learning to hit 2 clubs the same distance from 50 yards when the chances are you're not going to be that consistent at hitting it 50 yards anyway? At this stage, Tiger shouldn't be thinking "Can I get close to the pin?" he should be thinking "Can I get on the green?" and like I said, a longer putt is better than another pitch\chip and lets not forget what I said above, Tiger doesn't even have an official handicap yet.

Writing all this I'm actually starting to question my need for a 60deg wedge and I've been using it for years so you can understand why I am questioning Tiger's need for one

Tiger, apologies if I misquoted you in any of that.

 

[Golfmmad]

I'm confused (which is not difficult)
You have a PW and a Sw but you dont have any wedges?

Bob, most golfers have a pitching wedge and sand iron don't they? I meant lob and gap wedges with all the different degrees. Most high handicappers will lose more shots than they will gain with said clubs surely?

Golfmmad.