Pinehurst - Stupidly fast greens!!!!

[Dodger]

US OPEN GREENS ALREADY 12.7 to 13.1 SPEED ON STIMPMETER :lol::lol::lol::mmm::mmm::mmm:
HEAT, LACK OF RAIN COULD MAKE PARTS

OF PINEHURST No. 2 ALMOST UNPLAYABLE

FROM THE GOLF DIGEST WEBSITE
By Geoff Shackelford
PINEHURST, North Carolina -- If you've paid any attention this week, you know the hype: Pinehurst No. 2 looks amazing with its rusticity and absence of snooze-inducing Bermuda hay.
Old Donald Ross' handiwork is playing as tough as anything the flatbellies have seen and will provide some unprecedented entertainment value in the form of artistic (or not) recovery shots.
Then there's the conditioning, which will take some getting used to for HD TV fans. Rest assured, the players say the actual tees, fairways and greens are as good as they've played at a major.
Lush green, Pinehurst is not. But the opportunity to play shots from pristine lies has been provided by Pinehurst's crack maintenance team.
Yet as the first round tees off Thursday, some higher-than-expected heat and lack of afternoon showers (so far) has the course playing right up to the edge of the dreaded "fair" barometer (green speeds are already rolling at a whopping 12.7 to 13.1, according to Golfweek's Bradley Klein).
So if you're watching Thursday, there are three parts of the course to look to if you want an indication Pinehurst No. 2 has teetered over the edge.
Is the ninth green holding up play?
This elevated par-3 green has steep short grass run-offs or bunkers all around. Weird stuff is bound to happen here. But even the USGA's Mike Davis has said that if shots are not holding here or putts that looked OK start rolling off and groups start backing up on the tee, hit the emergency record button on your DVR and get ready for some big time drama.
blog-shack-9th-518.jpg
The fifth green is not accepting seemingly well-struck wedge shots?
One of the most inviting second shots on the planet as a par-4, the fifth is now a 576 yard par-5 from the tips. Phil Mickelson lamented the change in his Wednesday press conference. He senses most of the field will lay up in two and we'll see only 50-80 yard wedge shots all day.
If those shots aren't holding and staying on the green, raise a red flag.
Is the short 15th letting them carry shots to the green?
The first of two back-nine par 3s could be stretched to 202 yards but will probably play shorter, though the severe crowning of the green makes a run-up shot tough. A new hole location that makes Davis giddy is probably going to be saved for the weekend, so if you see balls continually going long here, brace for another back-up and some serious post-round griping.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Its how they like the US Open - scores of over par to win it - 3 over i reckon

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am all for making a course hard for a major but I do wonder how close to the wire the USGA play it every time. If it isn't taking wedge shots and players can't hit a par 3 then it has gone over the mark and is unplayable and farcical. I hope for a viewing spectacle they have plans in place to cope but I fear they might see it as a good thing in order to keep the winning score at par or worse which seems the be their want

 

[Imurg]

It's not uncommon at US Open..
A few years back, can't remember where, there was a pin position on a hole where, if you placed the ball 18 inches beyond the hole, the weight of the ball would start it rolling 30 odd yards off the green.
Yes Major courses should be a tough test but when good shots get punished so severely it becomes a joke.
I don't want a birdie-fest, with the cut coming at -5, but if the course is that severe it becomes a case of who makes the least mistakes rather than who plays the best that wins. I want to see players being able to make a run at the leader on the back 9 on Sunday. More often than not it's players making mistakes that closes the gaps.
What's wrong with winning a tournament at -10....?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For our recent pro-am we used a borrowed 'green iron' for the first time - our pro told me that they were running at 10 on the stimp meter. I have no idea if that is fast - or just a bit fast, or indeed still pretty sluggish. So what speed would good greens at a links course run when prepared for normal members play.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

10 is a really good pace. For a members club, it's probably about right, though with the right weather etc, this could sneak up higher. The 13-13 stamp reading won't worry may pros...they are used to playing on greens similar week in, week out. It's just the pure lack of moisture and inability to stop shots where they want that will play havoc. Level par/-1 will win this week I reckon

 

[cookelad]

For our recent pro-am we used a borrowed 'green iron' for the first time - our pro told me that they were running at 10 on the stimp meter. I have no idea if that is fast - or just a bit fast, or indeed still pretty sluggish. So what speed would good greens at a links course run when prepared for normal members play.

Green Keeper last year posted that ours were running at around 9, found that pretty scary though some of our greens would be unplayable if he got them too much faster!

 

[Curls]

Ours were up to 10.5 last year for the Club Champs and probably will be again this year. They are kept in immaculate condition considering the amount of traffic they get, and being on sandy soil dry out super-quick. I freely admit I usually have an absolute mare on them until I remember to tap instead of slap, but love the fact that the are so fast and true. Feels like real golf, even if I do need to set the alarm for stupid o clock on Sunday

A massive tip of the cap to the greens staff. I'm sure the pros are well aware that the US Open is bogey-avoidance and will play for pars on these troublesome ones.

 

[davidy233]

I played in the states last year and they had a guy out measuring the greens when we got to the first - he said they were at eleven - didn't seem vastly quick to me, probably because they looked like carpets compared to links greens.

When we had the open qualifying in 2008 Monifieth's greens were exactly same speed as Carnoustie's were during the tournament.

R&A guy told me that we were the only qualifying course who had managed to get them that quick that year - don't know what the stimp was but they were scary quick - not been as quick as that since but they were speedy last Friday for an Open.

 

[Spear-Chucker]

Typical USGA setup where the best golfers are not rewarded but the last man standing is... I'm hoping for rain to allow more in the field to compete. Also the LPGA are not going to want dead greens for their Open next week.

Nothing against fast greens but it's got to be in sympathy with the green and hole design. Doing it for the sake of it is daft.

Got a weekend at Hunstanton coming up and the greens are rumoured to be running at 11+ with no rain forecast

 

[bladeplayer]

It's not uncommon at US Open..
A few years back, can't remember where, there was a pin position on a hole where, if you placed the ball 18 inches beyond the hole, the weight of the ball would start it rolling 30 odd yards off the green.
Yes Major courses should be a tough test but when good shots get punished so severely it becomes a joke.
I don't want a birdie-fest, with the cut coming at -5, but if the course is that severe it becomes a case of who makes the least mistakes rather than who plays the best that wins. I want to see players being able to make a run at the leader on the back 9 on Sunday. More often than not it's players making mistakes that closes the gaps.
What's wrong with winning a tournament at -10....?

LIKE !!!!

I think the same of some of the holes at the masters , ive even gone on record here saying the masters can be too tricked up ..

Ok we dont want the usual USA target golf , but if a hole or pin position is making the best players in the world look stupid , then maybe its not the players that are stupid but the hole or pin position..

 

[duncan mackie]

For our recent pro-am we used a borrowed 'green iron' for the first time - our pro told me that they were running at 10 on the stimp meter. I have no idea if that is fast - or just a bit fast, or indeed still pretty sluggish. So what speed would good greens at a links course run when prepared for normal members play.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?67803-Green-Speeds

 

[richy]

It's not uncommon at US Open..
A few years back, can't remember where, there was a pin position on a hole where, if you placed the ball 18 inches beyond the hole, the weight of the ball would start it rolling 30 odd yards off the green.
Yes Major courses should be a tough test but when good shots get punished so severely it becomes a joke.
I don't want a birdie-fest, with the cut coming at -5, but if the course is that severe it becomes a case of who makes the least mistakes rather than who plays the best that wins. I want to see players being able to make a run at the leader on the back 9 on Sunday. More often than not it's players making mistakes that closes the gaps.
What's wrong with winning a tournament at -10....?

It could be said that the player that makes the least mistakes is playing the best.

 

[bladeplayer]

It could be said that the player that makes the least mistakes is playing the best.

Safe golf over exciting attacking golf ... Wouldnt make for great viewing tho , would it ? ..

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I guess you could fairly easily have greens that were rock hard and bare as a babies chin - and they'd be lightening fast - but they wouldn't be playable as you could get a ball to pitch and stop. Must take a snap of the texture of our greens are the moment as they look like wilton carpets. Just awesome to play on.

 

[Ethan]

The US Open has been interesting in recent years. Back in the 70s and 80s it was mostly a dreadful slogging match with ribbon like fairways where players hit 2 iron tee shots and deep cabbage rough which only allowed chip outs. So gtalented but boring golfers like Mr. Personality Hale Irwin won them. The USGA were also obsessed with protecting par. Then in 1992 Gil Morgan became the first player ever to reach 10 under par (getting to 12 under, in fact) and the USGA had a fit. They seemed to miss the fact that Gil ended up 5 over.

So then things toughened up and you had winning totals a couple under par. In 1998 at Olympic Club, on the 18th, a short par4 they put the flag on a crusty ridge and we saw Payne Stewart try a 7 foot putt and end up putting the ball 30 feet down the hill. And at the 2004 US Open won by Goosen, they had to water one of the par 3s between groups because it became so hard.

These days they try to get a balance between firm and fast and fair. Rory was 16 under at Congressional but there had been so much rain they course was playing very soft. So the following year at Olympic it was very firm and fast. Pine hurst has been renovated to give it a more traditional look and should make for a great championship. Crenshaw and Coore is one of the hottest design teams in the game at present and have done some great courses.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?67803-Green-Speeds

thanks for this link to the earlier discussion on speed.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Fitzpatrick off to a good start -1 after 9