Penalty for Lowry

doublebogey7 said:
Its also not a level playing field when the camera see's exactly where a certain players ball goes into the rough, and that player also has 100's of people looking for it including Radar. Swings and roundabouts.
Click to expand...

Posing a hypothetical question around the 3 minute rule for looking for a ball - maybe @rulie or @rulefan can shed some light.

If I’ve hit my ball into the cabbage and as I walk towards where my ball is a group of spectators starts to look for my ball, when does the 3 minutes start?

I may be wrong but I thought the 3 minutes starts when I or my caddie start looking for the ball. And I’ll be honest, I have said to a caddie in the past, “don’t rush, let the spectators look before we get there. It’ll extend the 5 minutes(it was a while ago) we have to find it.”
 
Hobbit said:
Posing a hypothetical question around the 3 minute rule for looking for a ball - maybe @rulie or @rulefan can shed some light.

If I’ve hit my ball into the cabbage and as I walk towards where my ball is a group of spectators starts to look for my ball, when does the 3 minutes start?

I may be wrong but I thought the 3 minutes starts when I or my caddie start looking for the ball. And I’ll be honest, I have said to a caddie in the past, “don’t rush, let the spectators look before we get there. It’ll extend the 5 minutes(it was a while ago) we have to find it.”
Click to expand...

Correct
As with Rose, there were ppl searching minutes before he arrived but no timer needed for that part (in fact it was a staggering 11 minutes between his shot that went into rubbish, him walking to spot, searching, ball found and him taking his next shot)
 
Hobbit said:
I may be wrong but I thought the 3 minutes starts when I or my caddie start looking for the ball. And I’ll be honest, I have said to a caddie in the past, “don’t rush, let the spectators look before we get there. It’ll extend the 5 minutes(it was a while ago) we have to find it.”
Click to expand...
Lost
The status of a ball that is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player’s partner or partner’s caddie) begins to search for it. A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.
If a player deliberately delays the start of the search in order to allow other people to search on their behalf, the search time starts when the player would have been in a position to search had they not delayed getting to the area.
 
Steven Rules said:
Lost
The status of a ball that is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player’s partner or partner’s caddie) begins to search for it. A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.
If a player deliberately delays the start of the search in order to allow other people to search on their behalf, the search time starts when the player would have been in a position to search had they not delayed getting to the area.
Click to expand...

Isn’t that a bit vague though? Just playing Devil’s advocate. I could stop to get a bottle of water out of the bag, or tie a shoe lace…
 
Hobbit said:
Isn’t that a bit vague though? Just playing Devil’s advocate. I could stop to get a bottle of water out of the bag, or tie a shoe lace…
Click to expand...
This is where integrity comes into it. You are not expected to run to where you think your ball is. If your shoe lace comes undone, tie it. No problem.

The point is, a player cannot just deliberately delay the start of their search, to give others more time to find it. That part of the rule just ensures that is covered.

Hopefully integrity ensures the player obeys it. If not, it is ultimately a judgement call a referee may have to make.
 
BrianM said:
@Slab are you expected to be fully up to speed on the rules when you caddy?
Are the players you've caddied for up to scratch on the rules in your opinion....
Click to expand...

I guess its the word 'expected' When I put my name down I wasn't asked if I knew xyz etc but I think the players assume a basic vetting is done
As we know its the players responsibility to make sure I don't breach a rule that gets him a penalty although that doesn't mean a caddie wont make a booboo (I saw a couple of things like player moving their non-permanent caddie off their putting line etc)

From my point of view I wouldn't have dare done it if I didn't think I had the basics down, too dam scary to think I might ruin someone's Tournament. As a temp I maybe went a bit OTT i.e telling them each day I've counted their clubs, my golf watch isn't 'on', what number provisional ball I'm carrying and stuff like that but I figured it can't hurt

The players in the groupings I was part of all appeared to know the score 'rules-wise' at least for the situations that came up anyway, and for sure they all know how to get a ref when needed
 
Hobbit said:
Posing a hypothetical question around the 3 minute rule for looking for a ball - maybe @rulie or @rulefan can shed some light.

If I’ve hit my ball into the cabbage and as I walk towards where my ball is a group of spectators starts to look for my ball, when does the 3 minutes start?

I may be wrong but I thought the 3 minutes starts when I or my caddie start looking for the ball. And I’ll be honest, I have said to a caddie in the past, “don’t rush, let the spectators look before we get there. It’ll extend the 5 minutes(it was a while ago) we have to find it.”
Click to expand...
The problem with waiting for spectators to find the ball is that the player may decide that he doesn't want it to be found when he gets to the scene and realises it's in the jungle.
 
Swango1980 said:
This is where integrity comes into it. You are not expected to run to where you think your ball is. If your shoe lace comes undone, tie it. No problem.

The point is, a player cannot just deliberately delay the start of their search, to give others more time to find it. That part of the rule just ensures that is covered.

Hopefully integrity ensures the player obeys it. If not, it is ultimately a judgement call a referee may have to make.
Click to expand...
Next time you see a pro putt and leave the ball hanging on the lip...check out how long it takes them to get to the hole...
I'll bet they spend 10 seconds or so grimacing and blaming the green for the ball not going in before commencing a slow meander up to the hole so they can wait another 10 seconds.......I'd penalise virtually all of them for not getting to the hoke in a reasonable time....
 
Swango1980 said:
What would be the unfathomable reason, that still involved YOU being the reason the ball moved?

And, when you think of this reason, can you ever remember a moment in your whole golfing life this actually happened to you?

I suspect you are worrying about a scenario that will likely never happen.
Click to expand...
I asked a similar question to @SwingsitlikeHogan earlier in the thread.
It's actually not that unusual an occurrence at both clubs where I've been a member. The long rough is very long in summer - 1 metre long grass seed heads. If you're looking in the right place then balls aren't especially hard to find, but wherever there's been previous traffic the seed heads will be flattened down and tangled with each other.
If your ball is resting on a raft of flattened grass or suspended an inch or two above ground level then there's a strong possibility you'll cause it to move before you're even close enough to address it. Hopefully it just oscillates, but often it's position changes.
I wondered if there's anything in the rules that gives you a chance to play it without penalty.
 
Imurg said:
Next time you see a pro putt and leave the ball hanging on the lip...check out how long it takes them to get to the hole...
I'll bet they spend 10 seconds or so grimacing and blaming the green for the ball not going in before commencing a slow meander up to the hole so they can wait another 10 seconds.......I'd penalise virtually all of them for not getting to the hoke in a reasonable time....
Click to expand...
If that were really an issue then they'd be getting penalties already.
 
Imurg said:
Next time you see a pro putt and leave the ball hanging on the lip...check out how long it takes them to get to the hole...
I'll bet they spend 10 seconds or so grimacing and blaming the green for the ball not going in before commencing a slow meander up to the hole so they can wait another 10 seconds.......I'd penalise virtually all of them for not getting to the hoke in a reasonable time....
Click to expand...
Yeah, I notice. Though even when ball is not overhanging, pros often take a while to get to ball, as they react to how they felt about their putt.

Again, it is where judgement and integrity come into it. If a player sinks to their knees, and spends a minute crying the ball didn't go in, and then it drops, there will be a point the referee will rule the player inappropriately delayed going to ball
 
Time is allowed for the histrionics, but it's down to the judgment of the referee as to what is excessive - the time that is, not the histrionics . (Tyroll Hatton, for example, seems to have a particularly good drama coach and would be good at the latter.)
 
Swango1980 said:
This is where integrity comes into it. You are not expected to run to where you think your ball is. If your shoe lace comes undone, tie it. No problem.

The point is, a player cannot just deliberately delay the start of their search, to give others more time to find it. That part of the rule just ensures that is covered.

Hopefully integrity ensures the player obeys it. If not, it is ultimately a judgement call a referee may have to make.
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think players walk to a potential lost ball as quickly as they would to one in the middle of the fairway?

Didn’t someone post earlier in the thread that Rose(?) took 11 minutes?

I think you’re being a little naive.
 
Hobbit said:
Do you honestly think players walk to a potential lost ball as quickly as they would to one in the middle of the fairway?

Didn’t someone post earlier in the thread that Rose(?) took 11 minutes?

I think you’re being a little naive.
Click to expand...
I have literally no idea, and it is not something that keeps me up at night in all honesty. My comment is the same. It is about integrity, and if anything seems out of order, it is up to the referee to make their judgement.

I'm simply saying that if a player stops to tie their shoe lace, then I don't think a referee will hold that against them. If they go into the crowd next to the tee box and start signing autographs, whilst the marshals are busy looking for their ball 300 yards down the fairway, then a referee may then decide that the player unreasonably delayed their walk to the area the ball is, and thus start the search time before the player gets there.
 
rulefan said:
The problem with waiting for spectators to find the ball is that the player may decide that he doesn't want it to be found when he gets to the scene and realises it's in the jungle.
Click to expand...

I remember Mickleson being unhappy that spectators had found his ball in the Hawaiian Open about 20 years ago.
 
Hobbit said:
I remember Mickleson being unhappy that spectators had found his ball in the Hawaiian Open about 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
I think it was at Torrey Pines, and in a playoff. He was very unhappy about it because his provisional ball was in the middle of the fairway. Because the original ball was found, he had to abandon the provisional. He deemed the original unplayable and chose to return to the tee playing under stroke and distance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Colin L
  • Poll Poll
MLR L-1 Modification of DQ penalty for failure to sign card
2 3
Replies
51
Views
2K
Rlburnside
Rlburnside
F
Playing a practice shot during a competition round
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
D-S
D
mikejohnchapman
Backstopping - Enforcing a Player to Mark Their Ball
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
SwingsitlikeHogan
SwingsitlikeHogan
C
Ball overhanging hole question
Replies
17
Views
2K
doublebogey7
D
cookelad
Ball played by someone from another group
2 3 4
Replies
63
Views
6K
Backache
B
Top