Colin L
Tour Winner
It's a numerical system to measure playing ability relative to a scratch player which makes it possible for players of differing abilities to play together on an equal basis. What has logic to do with that?
PCC
- Thread starter sawtooth
- Start date
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
No and I’m sure you can’t either......but if you look at the scores/conditions in comparable competitions it follows no logic.
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
Touché Colin L!
Colin L
Tour Winner
Ok. You "look at" the scores on different days (all the scores by the way not just the competition ones). You see a lot of numbers. On what statistical basis are you analysing them in order to make a comparison. You look at the "conditions". What conditions and on what basis are you comparing them from one day to another? How are you measuring the ground conditions? No wetter, no dryer? How are you measuring the wind as it varied in speed and direction throughout each day? What about the consistency of the sand in bunkers. How are you comparing the speed of greens, the effect of changed pin positions unchanged...... and so on.
Forget all that. The PCC does not analyse any of it; it analyses scores by comparing actual scores with the expected scores of the players of the day. It looks at outcomes without any attempt to identify and analyse causes. Does that remind you of anything? The PCC is reckoned to be more conservative than the CSS was (perhaps too much so). Maybe that's what you're noticing but please don't bring logic into it unless it's the mathematical logic of the number crunching ...... which I know nothing about.
rulefan
Tour Winner
But you must know the elements it considers to be able to say competitions are comparable. But as said above, it doesn't compare competitions.
Or are you saying it follows a random formula?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
One of the changes with the new system is that it is all scores recorded on the day not just those in a competition. Where I play with have seen a large number of players putting in General play scores when they are not in a comp. When we run a a men's comp on most occasions there is also a concurrent lady's comp.
On that basis it would be impossible for a player to calculate the PCC even if they knew the formula unless they were aware of all players submitting an acceptable score on that day.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Again, without going back through all posts on this thread, question:
Has anyone seen a PCC other than zero for any of their scores that were played AFTER the launch of WHS in November.
I have played 18 rounds since that date and it has been zero every time. Granted, several of those rounds were General Play, so probably did not have 8 other scores in that day. However, 8 have been in competitions. In those comps, the percentage of field shooting 2 within handicap (i.e. Nett Course Rating + 2) was (I know CSS was more complicated that that, but for simplicity):
21% 22% 5% 28% 30% 19% 8% 22%
So, it seems like there are a couple of comps in there at least where one might expect the old CSS to be a positive number. I don't have the old table to check what it might have been. But I may go into that detail of I get time. But, I was just curious to see if anyone has seen much movement in PCC? It does have non zero values BEFORE WHS was implemented, where it was based on CSS. For example, although PCC has been 0 for all 18 rounds since WHS, it was a non zero value SIX times in the 18 rounds BEFORE WHS implemented (only 11 of those were comps, 7 general play)
Has anyone seen a PCC other than zero for any of their scores that were played AFTER the launch of WHS in November.
I have played 18 rounds since that date and it has been zero every time. Granted, several of those rounds were General Play, so probably did not have 8 other scores in that day. However, 8 have been in competitions. In those comps, the percentage of field shooting 2 within handicap (i.e. Nett Course Rating + 2) was (I know CSS was more complicated that that, but for simplicity):
21% 22% 5% 28% 30% 19% 8% 22%
So, it seems like there are a couple of comps in there at least where one might expect the old CSS to be a positive number. I don't have the old table to check what it might have been. But I may go into that detail of I get time. But, I was just curious to see if anyone has seen much movement in PCC? It does have non zero values BEFORE WHS was implemented, where it was based on CSS. For example, although PCC has been 0 for all 18 rounds since WHS, it was a non zero value SIX times in the 18 rounds BEFORE WHS implemented (only 11 of those were comps, 7 general play)
srixon 1
Journeyman Pro
It will be interesting to see if the PCC moves during the county championships later this month. Historically, the CSS nearly always seemed to go up when the field was 95% Cat 1 golfers.
upsidedown
Tour Winner
We've had a 1 so far ( 151 players and 5 scores better than par) with rest all 0's
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Swango1980
Well-known member
Interesting. Quite a few then. Of the % I quoted, our entire field is usually 30-40 players. I wonder if the size of the field makes it any less or more likely for it to change, or if it is mainly based on the proportion playing to a certain score.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The composition of the field has a bearing (ie the proportion of players with high or low handicaps) because the algorithm apparently estimates what scores players are expected to make regardless of unusual weather or course conditions.
As srixon 1 says, it will be interesting to see the PCC in prestigious comps when many cat 1 players (excluding + cappers) are seemingly affected by the occasion.
wjemather
Well-known member
The only non-zero PCC we have seen was 3; it was also the day we had our lowest number of submitted cards (just 11).
We did have one day when the conditions significantly improved for the late starters (cold 20-30 mph wind with the odd shower, down to <10 mph with a warming sun) and it showed in their scores (sweeping the comp); the resultant PCC was again zero. We might have expected something different until the late scores came in. On that note, WHS has prevision for separate PCCs for different parts of the day - does anyone know how this works/operates in practice?
wjemather
Well-known member
There were two 36-hole scratch salver events locally this weekend which would normally result in CSS increasing by at least 1 or 2 strokes for each round. Under WHS, the PCC was zero for all rounds.
rulie
Head Pro
I thought that PCC could only be a whole number between -1 and +3. Or maybe I'm reading that summary incorrectly?
DickInShorts
Newbie
Think the figures after the dots are the number of rounds for each PCC figure?
wjemather
Well-known member
I read it as follows:
- PCC=2, 4 occasions
- PCC=1, 5 occasions
- PCC=0, 14 occasions
- PCC=-1, 1 occasion
Swango1980
Well-known member
I though the same as you, but we both misread
He meant 4 comps had PCC of 2, 5 comps PCC of 1, etc
