PCC

[sawtooth]

If scores are for some reason entered next day or even a couple of days after competition , will the WHS be able to work out the PCC and apply it correctly?

In a ideal world players enter scores straight after competition on club touchscreen but we don't have that running at the moment.

Therefore things are a bit lumpy at the moment where some people add scores by phone app and some not. Also even when score goes in by player, this can obviously be corrected by me later , possibly next day, does the WHS take all of this into account when calculating and applying PCC? I assume its based on competition date not when score was necessarily entered, does this then potentially reprocess all scores again for that entire day? ( Not just our competition ones?)

 

[DickInShorts]

PCC is calculated on all scores returned each day - competition and General Play.
any scores posted after day of play will be adjusted for any PCC but they can’t and won’t be used to recalculate any PCC change retrospectively.

 

[nickjdavis]

We currently have a query lodged with Gemma Hunter at EG about a comp that we held where ALL scorecards were entered the day after the comp...and yet a PCC was calculated for the day of the comp and applied to all players.

No other scores had been entered on the day of the competition so no PCC calculation should have been made (according to the rules).

 

[Imurg]

Is there really any need for a PCC?
If playing conditions are bad then your score just becomes one of your 12 non counting cards.
As it works similarly to CSS ( 1 down/3up) it's not likely to make a huge difference...

 

[jim8flog]

Is there really any need for a PCC?
If playing conditions are bad then your score just becomes one of your 12 non counting cards.
As it works similarly to CSS ( 1 down/3up) it's not likely to make a huge difference...

In my view yes because like CSS those that played really well in bad conditions will get a bigger "cut" so to speak and it changes the point at which one can call it a bad round so may well count for some players.

 

[Swango1980]

Is there really any need for a PCC?
If playing conditions are bad then your score just becomes one of your 12 non counting cards.
As it works similarly to CSS ( 1 down/3up) it's not likely to make a huge difference...

Yes, similar to what jim4flog said

Anyone that plays really well on a day with difficult conditions will deservedly get a bigger cut, whilst a few others may more likely have those rounds creep into their top 8 if they had a fairly good day.

Furthermore, if the conditions of the day are extremely easy (PCC= -1), players who play well will not get quite as big a cut. It is a useful feature, especially in a country where earlier this week it was beautiful sunny weather one day, then 2 days later it was snowing

 

[Old Skier]

If scores are for some reason entered next day or even a couple of days after competition , will the WHS be able to work out the PCC and apply it correctly?

In a ideal world players enter scores straight after competition on club touchscreen but we don't have that running at the moment.

Therefore things are a bit lumpy at the moment where some people add scores by phone app and some not. Also even when score goes in by player, this can obviously be corrected by me later , possibly next day, does the WHS take all of this into account when calculating and applying PCC? I assume its based on competition date not when score was necessarily entered, does this then potentially reprocess all scores again for that entire day? ( Not just our competition ones?)

PSI’s are available for use from Monday providing necessary sanitizer is available for individual use.

 

[rulefan]

We currently have a query lodged with Gemma Hunter at EG about a comp that we held where ALL scorecards were entered the day after the comp...and yet a PCC was calculated for the day of the comp and applied to all players.

No other scores had been entered on the day of the competition so no PCC calculation should have been made (according to the rules).

Is it certain the date of the comp was entered correctly?

 

[nickjdavis]

Is it certain the date of the comp was entered correctly?

Yes.

 

[nickjdavis]

We currently have a query lodged with Gemma Hunter at EG about a comp that we held where ALL scorecards were entered the day after the comp...and yet a PCC was calculated for the day of the comp and applied to all players.

No other scores had been entered on the day of the competition so no PCC calculation should have been made (according to the rules).

We got a response yesterday...EG believed that some players entered their score on the day of the competition and that's why a PCC calculation was done and then retrospectively applied to the scores entered the following day. The explanation contained a rather worrying line...

"That's how we expect it to work, our developers are just double checking everything at the moment as this is the first real test of the system since we switched."

I would have thought that the fundamental operational process of returning scores and seeing the PCC calculation occur would have been tested to death...not only in the 6 months leading up to November 2020 but also in the 3 months that we've not been playing since Christmas!!!

(We did by way of response explain the reasons why it was simply not possible for players to enter their own scores and that all scores had been entered by the H'cap sec the following day. EG are still investigating)

 

[Old Skier]

We got a response yesterday...EG believed that some players entered their score on the day of the competition and that's why a PCC calculation was done and then retrospectively applied to the scores entered the following day. The explanation contained a rather worrying line...

"That's how we expect it to work, our developers are just double checking everything at the moment as this is the first real test of the system since we switched."

I would have thought that the fundamental operational process of returning scores and seeing the PCC calculation occur would have been tested to death...not only in the 6 months leading up to November 2020 but also in the 3 months that we've not been playing since Christmas!!!

(We did by way of response explain the reasons why it was simply not possible for players to enter their own scores and that all scores had been entered by the H'cap sec the following day. EG are still investigating)

Bunch of amateurs

 

[rulie]

We got a response yesterday...EG believed that some players entered their score on the day of the competition and that's why a PCC calculation was done and then retrospectively applied to the scores entered the following day. The explanation contained a rather worrying line...

"That's how we expect it to work, our developers are just double checking everything at the moment as this is the first real test of the system since we switched."

I would have thought that the fundamental operational process of returning scores and seeing the PCC calculation occur would have been tested to death...not only in the 6 months leading up to November 2020 but also in the 3 months that we've not been playing since Christmas!!!

(We did by way of response explain the reasons why it was simply not possible for players to enter their own scores and that all scores had been entered by the H'cap sec the following day. EG are still investigating)

Why were the scores not entered on the day of the competition? The PCC for the day just completed is calculated some time after midnight using the acceptable scores that had been entered for that course. If there is an adjustment, it will be applied to scores that are entered later for the specific day.

 

[nickjdavis]

Why were the scores not entered on the day of the competition? The PCC for the day just completed is calculated some time after midnight using the acceptable scores that had been entered for that course. If there is an adjustment, it will be applied to scores that are entered later for the specific day.

We are aware of how the PCC calculation is expected to work. The fact that there was a PCC calculated when no scores were entered plainly indicates that perhaps it doesn't work as expected.

The competition is run as an all day competition. Players can decide whether they want to enter the comp when they turn up to play (in their pre-booked tee time). This effectively means that the last cards could be returned to the scorecard box around 8pm in the evening.

We do not have any player entry facilities/PSI at the club and we have chosen not to allow players to enter scores via the Masterscoreboard App at this moment in time. This is as a result of issues with incorrect entry of cards by players during tests runs of the system and then physical cards not being returned preventing the committee from checking that scores have been correctly entered. It is impractical to have a volunteer committee member sat round all day processing scores, so, whilst we are getting back into the swing of golf, we currently have a committee member collect all the cards the day after the comp and enter them.

We could allow entry via the MasterScoreboard App but effectively made the choice that the short terms loss of a PCC calculation (especially at a time of year when it actually doesn't vary much) was insignificant compared to the additional workload of a committee member having to retrospectively check all the entered cards and correct the errors.

 

[Colin L]

We are aware of how the PCC calculation is expected to work. The fact that there was a PCC calculated when no scores were entered plainly indicates that perhaps it doesn't work as expected.

The competition is run as an all day competition. Players can decide whether they want to enter the comp when they turn up to play (in their pre-booked tee time). This effectively means that the last cards could be returned to the scorecard box around 8pm in the evening.

We do not have any player entry facilities/PSI at the club and we have chosen not to allow players to enter scores via the Masterscoreboard App at this moment in time. This is as a result of issues with incorrect entry of cards by players during tests runs of the system and then physical cards not being returned preventing the committee from checking that scores have been correctly entered. It is impractical to have a volunteer committee member sat round all day processing scores, so, whilst we are getting back into the swing of golf, we currently have a committee member collect all the cards the day after the comp and enter them.

We could allow entry via the MasterScoreboard App but effectively made the choice that the short terms loss of a PCC calculation (especially at a time of year when it actually doesn't vary much) was insignificant compared to the additional workload of a committee member having to retrospectively check all the entered cards and correct the errors.

It's a pity then that you're giving a committee member the additional workload of entering the scores. I wonder if there are ways of improving players' and markers'' reliability in using the app rather than that. It's their responsibility.

 

[nickjdavis]

It's a pity then that you're giving a committee member the additional workload of entering the scores. I wonder if there are ways of improving players' and markers'' reliability in using the app rather than that. It's their responsibility.

We will be embarking on some "re-education" of players in the near future. The gap between all the previous WHS education back last year and resumption of play seems to have been too much for many of them, despite a refresher communication that went out shortly before we resumed play a few weeks ago folks are still struggling with the "intricacies" of the WHS. I had one group I played with thought that they had to take 95% of their Course Handicap before calculating the 90% allowance when playing a 4BBB match. Where they had got the idea for that from I dont know. The simple fact of the matter is that folks often dont read the information that is sent out to them. It doesn't help with players marking their own score cards either....they by habit (though slowly they are getting used to it) are often putting their scores still in the "marker" column....even though they have their own card in their hand...when it comes to then entering a score via an App they are often lost and have entered the player that they were marking's score as their own.

Before "lockdown 2" we started investigating with the club owners about getting a PSI terminal but that fell by the wayside, even with the committee proposing to buy it out of competition funds. The entire clubhouse is currently being refurbished to provide an environment where social distancing can be achieved when we get back to mixing indoors. Once this is complete then hopefully we will be able to re-introduce the idea!!

We are currently monitoring the general play rounds that are being entered via the Apps and looking at the quality of the submissions and the actual cards we get....if these seem to become less and less error free then we will open up a club comp to player entry via App. Mind you...we still have a large number of players who dont own any sort of smart phone so will always struggle.

So no...we made the choice for these early competitions that the committee would retain the responsibility for entering cards, but will look to migrate to more technology based means of score entry in the coming weeks. We just need to be in a position where we can hold players hands and guide them through the process, rather than wield a stick of punishment and disqualify folks or discount their scorecards when they get it wrong. Golfers at this moment in time just want to play and enjoy themselves...they don't want some "blazer" type dictating to them that they must do Z,Y and Z otherwise there will be "sanctions" (not that we have "blazer" types at our club and thank goodness for that!!)....they are still learning and getting to grips with what in reality (despite it being 6 months old now) is a total new system. Sometimes folk lose sight of this.

However....all the above doesn't change the fact that the WHS made a PCC calculation when on the face of it, it shouldn't have done.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

PCC is calculated on all scores returned each day - competition and General Play.
any scores posted after day of play will be adjusted for any PCC but they can’t and won’t be used to recalculate any PCC change retrospectively.

However, if a score is posted later for that date it will attract the PCC calculated for the date of the round.

 

[rulefan]

However, if a score is posted later for that date it will attract the PCC calculated for the date of the round.

Isn't that what he said?
"... any scores posted after day of play will be adjusted for any PCC ...."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In advance of first board comp yesterday all entered were advised by email two days prior that I must enter my score for the comp on the day. If I do not I may be subject to a penalty score allocation for my WHS record.

 

[Canfordhacker]

We will be embarking on some "re-education" of players in the near future. The gap between all the previous WHS education back last year and resumption of play seems to have been too much for many of them, despite a refresher communication that went out shortly before we resumed play a few weeks ago folks are still struggling with the "intricacies" of the WHS. I had one group I played with thought that they had to take 95% of their Course Handicap before calculating the 90% allowance when playing a 4BBB match. Where they had got the idea for that from I dont know. The simple fact of the matter is that folks often dont read the information that is sent out to them. It doesn't help with players marking their own score cards either....they by habit (though slowly they are getting used to it) are often putting their scores still in the "marker" column....even though they have their own card in their hand...when it comes to then entering a score via an App they are often lost and have entered the player that they were marking's score as their own.

Before "lockdown 2" we started investigating with the club owners about getting a PSI terminal but that fell by the wayside, even with the committee proposing to buy it out of competition funds. The entire clubhouse is currently being refurbished to provide an environment where social distancing can be achieved when we get back to mixing indoors. Once this is complete then hopefully we will be able to re-introduce the idea!!

We are currently monitoring the general play rounds that are being entered via the Apps and looking at the quality of the submissions and the actual cards we get....if these seem to become less and less error free then we will open up a club comp to player entry via App. Mind you...we still have a large number of players who dont own any sort of smart phone so will always struggle.

So no...we made the choice for these early competitions that the committee would retain the responsibility for entering cards, but will look to migrate to more technology based means of score entry in the coming weeks. We just need to be in a position where we can hold players hands and guide them through the process, rather than wield a stick of punishment and disqualify folks or discount their scorecards when they get it wrong. Golfers at this moment in time just want to play and enjoy themselves...they don't want some "blazer" type dictating to them that they must do Z,Y and Z otherwise there will be "sanctions" (not that we have "blazer" types at our club and thank goodness for that!!)....they are still learning and getting to grips with what in reality (despite it being 6 months old now) is a total new system. Sometimes folk lose sight of this.

However....all the above doesn't change the fact that the WHS made a PCC calculation when on the face of it, it shouldn't have done.

PCC queries aside I applaud you and your club for your diligence and good intentions.

 

[SammmeBee]

In advance of first board comp yesterday all entered were advised by email two days prior that I must enter my score for the comp on the day. If I do not I may be subject to a penalty score allocation for my WHS record.

What does that mean in real terms?