Paul Casey, is he too negative?

[One Planer]

If more and more go over and relinquish their membership then the ET suffers and so does the RC - but how many have followed Casey lead ? None - if fact people like Knox and Rahm have gone the other way and joined the ET and played over in Europe during the season - and the reason is because they want to play in the Ryder Cup. Are more and more really basing themselves over there ? A few have gone over and most have struggled but anyone that has gone over none have relinquished their ET membership

The key word you're missing, again, is "Yet".

Just because no one has followed his lead yet doesn't mean it won't happen.

You only have to look at marquee players like Mcilroy. Is he still playing the same number of tournaments in Europe as he was when he started out?

Its Rahm playing more in America or Europe? Or is he only playing the token events to play Ryder Cup?

If Casey wants to play in the RC then the choice is there for him - he had no problems with the travel around the ET when he lost his tour card. He asked for them to chance the selection - so they did , that still wasn’t enough for him so he quit. If he isn’t willing to meet the criteria then he clearly doesn’t want to play in the RC enough - Donald , McDowell , Rose , Poulter , McIlroy, Stenson all based over there in the exact same situation as Casey and all have ET membership to ensure they can play in the RC , they are willing to play those small amount of comps to ensure they can play.

I'm talking hypothetically Phil. If the criteria were to change.

Here is John Rahm on joining the ET - as he says “because I want to play RC”

http://www.europeantour.com/videoaudio/video/videoid=322162.html

Look at rule changes if it’s affecting multiple players - not when it’s one person.

So Rahm openly admits to only joining the ET only to play RC.

And your happy for him to use the tour as a means to an end only playing marquee events to suit his needs.

Fantastic!

What about Storm? What about Larrazabal? What about Wiesberger?

Players who play week in, week out supporting the tour earning Ryder Cup points. You'd be happy for them to miss out on a potential pick to a bit part player only playing token events to be considered for RC?

Wow.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The key word you're missing, again, is "Yet".

Just because no one has followed his lead yet doesn't mean it won't happen.

But no one has followed his lead - no one not one single person. He isnt a trailblazer and people arent dumping their ET membership , not even any murmurs or inkling so its just not going to happen.

You only have to look at marquee players like Mcilroy. Is he still playing the same number of tournaments in Europe as he was when he started out?

Its Rahm playing more in America or Europe? Or is he only playing the token events to play Ryder Cup?

They are both playing the required amount to fullfil what is required to be a ET member - McIlory even hosting an event.

I'm talking hypothetically Phil. If the criteria were to change.



So Rahm openly admits to only joining the ET only to play RC.

And your happy for him to use the tour as a means to an end only playing marquee events to suit his needs.

Fantastic!

What about Storm? What about Larrazabal? What about Wiesberger?

Players who play week in, week out supporting the tour earning Ryder Cup points. You'd be happy for them to miss out on a potential pick to a bit part player only playing token events to be considered for RC?

Wow.

Umm Rahm will qualify via the World Points list so someone wont miss out who plays week in week out on the ET because of Rahm

And you seem happy to what to change the rules for"one person" to be able to play who isnt a member of the ET - now someone who does play week in week out could miss out

Thankfully the ET havent made any changes to suit one person and it wont affect the RC once little bit.

 

[One Planer]

But no one has followed his lead - no one not one single person. He isnt a trailblazer and people arent dumping their ET membership , not even any murmurs or inkling so its just not going to happen.



They are both playing the required amount to fullfil what is required to be a ET member - McIlory even hosting an event.



Umm Rahm will qualify via the World Points list so someone wont miss out who plays week in week out on the ET because of Rahm

And you seem happy to what to change the rules for"one person" to be able to play who isnt a member of the ET - now someone who does play week in week out could miss out

Thankfully the ET havent made any changes to suit one person and it wont affect the RC once little bit.

Fantastic.

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year. Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea. Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fantastic.

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year. Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea. Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:

Captains have picked players who have been on either tour and at times its been down to form and other times it hasnt

Considering Europe have won 8 times out of the last 11 unbeaten at home since 1993 with varying captains picks including players like Westwood , Monty , Kaymer , Harrington etc and players who fit in with others and form partnerships and have won it would suggest that the system works pretty well - unless people want to react based on one RC where they won on home soil .

Changing the rules to suit one player ! Great plan - that one player really wants to play - then he knows what he needs to do.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Fantastic.

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year. Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea. Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:

Spot on. We have to be put the best side out we can and sometimes, changing the fit to meet the needs is a bold and necessary move. I want the best players out there, and in form, not someone that is there as a result of meeting some criteria and playing the right number of ET events.

 

[ger147]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf...ation-rules-best-side-United-States-Hazeltine

 

[One Planer]

Captains have picked players who have been on either tour and at times its been down to form and other times it hasnt

Considering Europe have won 8 times out of the last 11 unbeaten at home since 1993 with varying captains picks including players like Westwood , Monty , Kaymer , Harrington etc and players who fit in with others and form partnerships and have won it would suggest that the system works pretty well - unless people want to react based on one RC where they won on home soil .

Changing the rules to suit one player ! Great plan - that one player really wants to play - then he knows what he needs to do.

One payer at the minute Phil. Let's revisit this topic in a few years as see if its changed :thup:

Tell me Westwood or Kaymer were inspired picks last year?

Tell me either one of those was in better form than Casey at the same time?

Now, selection criteria aside. Would you have picked Westwood or Kaymer ahead of Casey at that time?

 

[One Planer]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf...ation-rules-best-side-United-States-Hazeltine

Now there's a thing.

 

[fundy]

Now there's a thing.

lol, still an unwinnable argument

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Now there's a thing.

Interesting piece that tends to back up what a lot of us on here think. No doubt there will be a google article coming to counter this claim

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One payer at the minute Phil. Let's revisit this topic in a few years as see if its changed :thup:

Tell me Westwood or Kaymer were inspired picks last year?

Tell me either one of those was in better form than Casey at the same time?

Now, selection criteria aside. Would you have picked Westwood or Kaymer ahead of Casey at that time?

Yes

I wouldnt have possibly picked them ahead of Lowry or Knox or Kjeldson but ahead of Casey - yes

But Both Westwood and Kaymer had proven RC pedigree over the previous three RC - both had formed partnerships with other players over the previous RCs and experience was needed in a team that already had 4 rookies in it and both werent miles away from qualifying by right anyway . At the time i thought they were the right and sensible picks. They didnt work out and along with a number of others had a poor RC. But its all been done to death in regards Clarkes choices - in the previous three RC when Casey didnt get picked especially 2010 there was no issues at all with nice European wins.

The overriding point will still be the same - If Casey is that desperate to play in the RC then he knows what he has to do - the ET tour were there for him when he was down at the bottom. Casey has made his choice as have all the other players.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Now there's a thing.

Mcilory has said a lot of stuff

He also stated it was just an exhibition match at one stage

He also praised the ET for reducing the amount of events needed to qualify

He is one player - obviously the ET and indeed the captain dont agree hence the rules havent changed.

But here is another article from Casey himself about rejoining the tour

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/go...lots-European-Tour-return-Ryder-Cup-spot.html


If you remove the criteria for players to not be members of the ET to be able to get a Captains Pick then the ET will lose players. You cant have one rule of qualification and then another for the Captains Pick - the exact reason you pointed out to me about Rahm - someone who plays week in week out on ET and supports it misses out to someone or maybe 4 people who arent even a part of the ET - is that fair ?

Another good article from when he quit

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/25/paul-casey-ryder-cup-golf-pga-european-tour

 

[One Planer]

Yes

I wouldnt have possibly picked them ahead of Lowry or Knox or Kjeldson but ahead of Casey - yes

But Both Westwood and Kaymer had proven RC pedigree over the previous three RC - both had formed partnerships with other players over the previous RCs and experience was needed in a team that already had 4 rookies in it and both werent miles away from qualifying by right anyway . At the time i thought they were the right and sensible picks. They didnt work out and along with a number of others had a poor RC. But its all been done to death in regards Clarkes choices - in the previous three RC when Casey didnt get picked especially 2010 there was no issues at all with nice European wins.

The overriding point will still be the same - If Casey is that desperate to play in the RC then he knows what he has to do - the ET tour were there for him when he was down at the bottom. Casey has made his choice as have all the other players.

I see your careful selection of bold font. Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience.

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right.

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?

 

[One Planer]

Mcilory has said a lot of stuff

He also stated it was just an exhibition match at one stage

He also praised the ET for reducing the amount of events needed to qualify

He is one player - obviously the ET and indeed the captain dont agree hence the rules havent changed.

But here is another article from Casey himself about rejoining the tour

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/go...lots-European-Tour-return-Ryder-Cup-spot.html


If you remove the criteria for players to not be members of the ET to be able to get a Captains Pick then the ET will lose players. You cant have one rule of qualification and then another for the Captains Pick - the exact reason you pointed out to me about Rahm - someone who plays week in week out on ET and supports it misses out to someone or maybe 4 people who arent even a part of the ET - is that fair ?

Explain to me what you think the criteria is for gaining a captain's pick?

Obviously these are players who haven't qualified outright. What earns a pick?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I see your careful selection of bold font. Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience.

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right.

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?

I believe the current selection criteria has worked very well over the past couple of decades as can be seen by the multiple amount of times Europe have won even though at times they may not have had their strongest 12 players there - because Europe 9 times out of ten managed to gel together as a team and become collectively stronger regardless of the players that have been selected. Its what has made Europe such a force in the RC over the past 30 years.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I see your careful selection of bold font. Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience.

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right.

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?

We'll pick the best side based on the qualifying criteria, and if we get beat, there will be calls to change the process. I wonder if those thinking it's fine as it is will be joining in the clamour, or will they stick to their guns. I personally feel the current situation isn't the best we could have but the constant argument that it's only one player, it doesn't need changing seems a short sighted one. It may suffice for the next RC but if Europe were to lose on home soil, and then again in the US that would be three defeats in a row (and how unlikely is that scenario. Definitely not beyond the realms of possibility) and would the the ET really stick to their guns and pick those playing the requisite events and not the best side available

 

[One Planer]

I believe the current selection criteria has worked very well over the past couple of decades as can be seen by the multiple amount of times Europe have won even though at times they may not have had their strongest 12 players there - because Europe 9 times out of ten managed to gel together as a team and become collectively stronger regardless of the players that have been selected. Its what has made Europe such a force in the RC over the past 30 years.

I agree with most of that Re the team spirit.

The problem is that things change and evolve. You me the current criteria can be restrictive.

Let's suppose for a moment Rahm didn't join the ET. Should be be worthy of a pick? Or should we just continue to pick, potentially lesser quality, players purely because of the selection criteria?

My opinion is you pick the strongest team possible regardless of tour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Explain to me what you think the criteria is for gaining a captain's pick?

Obviously these are players who haven't qualified outright. What earns a pick?

Surely that would depend on a multitude of factors (ps enjoying a respectful debate :thup: )

Who the Captain is , Who has already qualified , the level of expirence , potential partnerships , where they are playing , what sort of course is it , which players does it suit and how they have played that year and currently.

I suspect when it comes to France Bjorn will have 10 players in mind he would want there and we prob could pick a number now and he would have some idea of picks ( he has four this time ) - and when the time comes i suspect most of us would have a fair idea of a the picks when we look at the team

 

[One Planer]

Surely that would depend on a multitude of factors (ps enjoying a respectful debate :thup: )

Who the Captain is , Who has already qualified , the level of expirence , potential partnerships , where they are playing , what sort of course is it , which players does it suit and how they have played that year and currently.

I suspect when it comes to France Bjorn will have 10 players in mind he would want there and we prob could pick a number now and he would have some idea of picks ( he has four this time ) - and when the time comes i suspect most of us would have a fair idea of a the picks when we look at the team

I'm always up for debate pal. Is what makes the forum great especially when it's respectful :thup:

For me, I dont see why the caotians picks shoukd follow the same qualification criteria as the point s system.

If you qualify out right through points then what difference does it make is the captain is given more of a free reign on HIS picks?

Its almost like saying you can pick who you want but you can't have him, him or him.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm always up for debate pal. Is what makes the forum great especially when it's respectful :thup:

For me, I dont see why the caotians picks shoukd follow the same qualification criteria as the point s system.

If you qualify out right through points then what difference does it make is the captain is given more of a free reign on HIS picks?

Its almost like saying you can pick who you want but you can't have him, him or him.

I don’t think it was an issue until last year and I think if reports are true it won’t be an issue again as Casey will join again

The problem is the ET look after the European Ryder Cup team - when it all got changed they took it on and right then it was deemed to be eligible to play for the Europeans team you had to be a member of the European Tour. Never been an issue as most players played on both - obviously they have tweaked the format over the years to helped players on both tours but the constant is you have to be a member of the tour to play - so if you allow them to pick from outside the tour then that rule is gone - don’t need to be a member of the tour - that means the potential is the ET would go further downhill because the players would just go and you could potentially only have 4 players who play on the ET.

It’s the one rule they have stuck to and it’s mainly to protect their own product and as yet it hasn’t harmed the RC. None of the captains so far have made any suggestions that they want to pick non ET members - even when you had someone like Carl Peterson who was playing very well and Freddi Jacobsen etc