Par 3s... Brain v Brawn?

[Imurg]

Most amateurs need to play a par 3 over 200 yards as a par 4 - simples.
If you can reach it the chances are you've missed it and will need, probably, a chip and 2 putts.
Its not really a par 3, its a short par 4.
I tell Fragger that no grown man needs a shot at a par 3. He points out our long par 3 where I get a shot. I tell him its a short par 4.
I'm not unhappy with a 4 on it because I know I'm not going to lose much if any ground on everyone else.

 

[Smiffy]

We have 2 at 198, a 164, a 150 and a 129. All with raised greens, all well bunkered, some with false fronts, all very double bogey-able and all great holes.

As much as I love playing Blackmoor, I really don't like your 6th and 15th holes.
Guaranteed card wreckers for me.
Fine if you are able to hit the ball a long way with irons, but if, like me, you are firing in a fairway wood you stand not a hope in hell of holding the green (unless you knob one and it runs up on to them).
And if you do miss the green, neither of them are the easiest greens to chip on to.
The other par 3's are fine and don't bother me at all....well maybe the 17th if it's into the wind!!

 

[Nosevi]

2 of the par 3s on my course:

One is 215 yards off the back to a 2 tier green sloping towards you and plays a tad down hill - everything is in front of you and and it's pretty open, bail out left or right, your call.
The other is 150 yards (about 140 off the yellows) with out of bounds tight all the way down the left, trees left side and behind the green, 6 foot deep bunker guarding the front and a green sloping sharply away from you. Oh yes and heavy rough on the right.

Both holes give a different challenge but for my money the short one is far harder.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As much as I love playing Blackmoor, I really don't like your 6th and 15th holes.
Guaranteed card wreckers for me.
Fine if you are able to hit the ball a long way with irons, but if, like me, you are firing in a fairway wood you stand not a hope in hell of holding the green (unless you knob one and it runs up on to them).
And if you do miss the green, neither of them are the easiest greens to chip on to.
The other par 3's are fine and don't bother me at all....well maybe the 17th if it's into the wind!!

The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.

 

[Oddsocks]

We have a good mixed depending one which loop your playing, yellow distances first

Yellow 9

150/175
175/200

Red 9
120/145
150/170

Blue
145/160
110/130

It's nice that each 9 has a shortish and med to longish par 3, it's a good mix

 

[Smiffy]

The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.

I love the 9th at Blackmoor. Easy 7 iron for me.
And I like the 12th. That one makes you think a bit.
The 17th is OK. Another "thinker".

 

[Smiffy]

I always get a little annoyed at some of these high indexed long par 3's.
I know that the stroke index isn't always indicative of how hard the hole actually is, but it's a bit of a joke having to hit a 5 or even a 3 wood/driver into a 220 yard par 3 that is stroke index 17.
Give me a par 4 where you are having to wallop that sort of approach shot in, and I can almost guarantee that it's index will be below 5 or 6.

 

[NorfolkShaun]

Good debate this for me, one thing on our second is if one of us duffs our attempt short at the green we always end up walking off the tee saying i'll take that where as left and right green high can be in trouble, maybe the answer is just a five iron or so.....

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.

The 9th and 12th are my favourite holes. 15 is a pig

 

[Smiffy]

15 is a pig

I've certainly oinked a few on there

 

[MashieNiblick]

This has been a really interesting thread. I don't mind long par 3's. No different from long 4's or 5's. I'm not a long hitter so they aren't my favourite holes but being able to hit the ball a long way accurately is a skill that should be rewarded and these long holes do that. As long as the course also has holes that reward other skills and give shorter hitters a chance, having the odd one of these isn't an issue. When faced with one I have to work out the best way for me to play the hole in fewest strokes, which is just another of golf's intrinsic challenges.

One of our par 3's was recently extended to about 190. Into the wind that is a big shot for me but all the trouble is left and right so I just hit a 5 wood and look to chip on from the apron or from the front bunkers (and sometimes have a go at both ).

 

[Slab]

This thread brought to mind a tale I was told about a guy off 3 who had the chance to talk to the course designer (who was visiting) about how tough it was to make par on the SI 1 460 yard par4.

The designer said you play off 3, you’re not supposed to make par on that hole!

 

[JohnnyDee]

Interesting how this thread has developed.

When starting it I was more interested in the changing 'spirit' of the game, where I feel the traditional Par3, which was often seen as a 'short hole' and, by and large, was reachable off the tee by most abilities, has now become a hole like any other on the course (which of course it is)

I suppose modern equipment and course design has changed the wider perception the golfing fraternity has about short holes, and perhaps too the quaint view that I have about 3s is changing, but I have enjoyed the debate. In particular the many good points raised about course management and mindset when tackling one of the longer variety Par 3s.

Still don't like 'em though😄

 

[duncan mackie]

Interesting how this thread has developed.

When starting it I was more interested in the changing 'spirit' of the game, where I feel the traditional Par3, which was often seen as a 'short hole' and, by and large, was reachable off the tee by most abilities, has now become a hole like any other on the course (which of course it is)

I suppose modern equipment and course design has changed the wider perception the golfing fraternity has about short holes, and perhaps too the quaint view that I have about 3s is changing, but I have enjoyed the debate. In particular the many good points raised about course management and mindset when tackling one of the longer variety Par 3s.

Still don't like 'em though😄

It's worth noting that the game was played for well over 100 years without the concept of par.
It was established after the courses were already in play (not all of them obviously! ) to help the readers of newspapers comprehend the scale of achievement of professional golfers (well sort of professionals) and was ßubsequently expanded with the bogey rating being a representation of the same thing for gentlemen golfers.

Today we have the Course SSS to indicate your overall target in relation to the whole round and your handicap (or handicap index, course index and par in the US) but par is merely indicative and it's up to individual players to breakdown their approach.

Unfortunately this seems to lead many to frustration rather than an appreciation of the finer elements of the challenge. With golf performance being so dependant on mental approach it's another area that quickly indicates a players likely strengths -when I come across someone who sets off to play an uphill par 4 as a 3 shot hole from the tee, then the following (longer on the card) par 5 as a 2 shotter, I know I am up against a formidable opponent!

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I'm a big fan of a good short par 3. The 9th at Silloth for example, plays between 120 and 140 depending on which tee but a brilliant hole. Into the prevailing wind with a small green and run off's either side. Deep bunkers and a missed green can easily mean a double bogey.

A shortish iron but needs total commitment to the shot aimed at the centre of the green, forget about attacking the flag just too risky. Find the middle of the green a you have a decent birdie chance.

Two many long par 3 holes just make for dull golf in my opinion.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This thread brought to mind a tale I was told about a guy off 3 who had the chance to talk to the course designer (who was visiting) about how tough it was to make par on the SI 1 460 yard par4.

The designer said you play off 3, you’re not supposed to make par on that hole!

All that tells me is that the designer (and player probably) doesn't understand SI. It is not supposed to represent difficulty alone. The SI also wouldn't have been allocated until after the course was built.

Personally I think too many people get hung up on SI, it's what score you shoot after 18 holes that counts, not what you make on specific holes

 

[dontfancythisputt]

I'm a big believer in generally ignoring SI for stroke play events and playing every hole as I find it but I would say that SI can have a huge part to play on par 3s in match play and stab events as id hate to be giving a shot to an opponent on a 200+ par 3 as its would be an easy 4 for them yet a very hard 3 for me.

agreed that this is a good thread.

 

[ruff-driver]

I'm not a fan of the 200yd + but it is what it is.
Hard work in the wind & rain though,
Last months medal we we staring into the teeth of a 3-4 club wind on a 190yd par 3,
I elected to hit a smooth 3 wood, it finished pin high left,
shame it was 5 yds o.b , my provisional finished next to it :rofl:

 

[srixon 1]

Merrick Park down in Bournemouth has a 244 yd par 3 for the 1st that plays across a valley so anything short in the summer and you watch it roll 100 yds down to the bottom. Nasty especially as there is no driving range as such to warm up so often first shot out of the car. Horrible!

That is soon followed up with the par 3 4th at 242 yards. Sandwiched in-between is the 3rd, a par 4 of 469 yards. As tough a start as you will find anywhere. At least the second is only just over 300 yards.

 

[Andy808]

I have no problem with long par 3's as we have two on our course. One is later in the round and at 200 yards with a large bunker on the left and a pair of bunkers short right it's main protection is it's length. It's a great hole which I look forward to playing.
the other is a totally different kettle of fish. 216 yards to a small green that slopes to the left with a bunker and a steep slope on that side. It's also protected by a bunker in front that is right on the line to the heart of the green and exactly where you want to land the ball when the fairway is rock solid in the summer. There's a ditch that runs from about half way down the fairway diagonally to the left and there's a line of trees tight down the right hand side of the tee with OOB past them the full length of the hole. It's a stunning hole but it's the first! So many people have said it's probably the hardest opening hole in Cornwall which is high praise with some of the courses we have around us.