Owning up or not?

[dankiz]

I played Paultons in Hampshire with my Boss (and mate) on Monday, just a friendly 18 holes of match play. It is part of a ten match series but only for fun. I was 2 down coming up the 9th, he was having one of those rounds where everything went in, fair play. Anyway for the first time in the round, I had hit 2 crackers to be 30 yards from hole on a par 5, he was struggling on the edge of the green in 4. It would have been a good time to reduce deficit and concentrate on getting back into on the back 9. I addressed the ball and like an idiot, touched the ball as I was waggling the club. My friend hadn't noticed, we were only playing for fun and tbf, the ball didn't move. But I knew I had touched it and even as I debated for a split second what was right and wrong, I knew I was going to call on myself, I was wrong, I had hit it and it was a shot. I was so infuriated with myself for doing it but right is right! Didn't help me as my boss shot an 84, a career best by a mile and I got beaten 4 and 3. Not sure there are any sports like golf where you are faced with this dilemma, seems harsh when the ball barely moved a millimetre. Rules are rules though and I would have known even If I hadn't owned up. Winning isn't all that, but playing the game the right way is! Just wondered if you would all have owned up? I think I know the answer, just intrigued as to the thoughts that go through a players head when he weighs up the pros and cons

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If the ball doesn't move there is no penalty, see rule 18.

 

[Kellfire]

Oops, all that post and no rule broken anyway.

 

[dankiz]

As I hit it, I suppose I wasn't paying attention as to whether the ball actually moved! Oh well lol, I would have got beaten anyway. Thanks for heads up though, might stand me in good stead next time round when I waggle like an idiot!

 

[Slab]

Oops, all that post and no rule broken anyway.

Yup, the real dilemma being not knowing the rule rather than calling erroneous penalty (poss both players)

He's a dilemma, did the OP announce the penalty to opponent and opponent did know it was no foul but kept mouth shut

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

That is just cruel slab

 

[dankiz]

Bloody hell, I hadn't looked at it like that lol! I don't think either of us knew rule! I do now though

 

[SugarPenguin]

You were just making it easier for your boss to beat you.
That will make the pain go away

 

[brendy]

I suppose someone has to do it, might as well be me.

 

[Crazyface]

You sure no penalty?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ball is sitting in rough. I address ball being careful about how heavily I touch the grass the ball is sitting on so to avoid causing ball to move. Weight of club depresses grass, the grass moves slightly and the ball moves with the grass but is stationary relative to the grass. So the ball has moved very slightly 'in space' but not at all relative to the rough. Has the ball moved?

 

[Slab]

Ball is sitting in rough. I address ball being careful about how heavily I touch the grass the ball is sitting on so to avoid causing ball to move. Weight of club depresses grass, the grass moves slightly and the ball moves with the grass but is stationary relative to the grass. So the ball has moved very slightly 'in space' but not at all relative to the rough. Has the ball moved?

Golf is a multidimensional game

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Golf is a multidimensional game

Oh it is - and so I am wondering about the reference axes that movement of a golf ball is measured in. My golf ball would not have moved in axes defined for the rough the ball was originally stationary on but will have moved in local geographic axes

 

[duncan mackie]

Oh it is - and so I am wondering about the reference axes that movement of a golf ball is measured in. My golf ball would not have moved in axes defined for the rough the ball was originally stationary on ubut will have moved in local geographic axes

What slab is politely telling you is that it moved!

The orollary is that if you ball comes to rest on a moving outside agency, ie relative to that agency, it is stationary even though it's moving

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What slab is politely telling you is that it moved!

The orollary is that if you ball comes to rest on a moving outside agency, ie relative to that agency, it is stationary even though it's moving

If I may be a bit ... whatever

My ball is sitting on a 'platform' of long grass flattened against the direction I intend to play. In addressing the ball I cause the grass closest to my club to depress and the grass 'platform' tilts down but the ball doesn't actually move on the grass 'platform' - has the ball moved?

 

[Spuddy]

If I may be a bit ... whatever

My ball is sitting on a 'platform' of long grass flattened against the direction I intend to play. In addressing the ball I cause the grass closest to my club to depress and the grass 'platform' tilts down but the ball doesn't actually move on the grass 'platform' - has the ball moved?

Yes

 

[Region3]

If I may be a bit ... whatever

My ball is sitting on a 'platform' of long grass flattened against the direction I intend to play. In addressing the ball I cause the grass closest to my club to depress and the grass 'platform' tilts down but the ball doesn't actually move on the grass 'platform' - has the ball moved?

Yes

And if you then take your club away and the grass - with your ball on it - returns to exactly the same position as it was before? Penalty?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Back to the OP, always, always own up to any rules infringement or even ask others in your group about possible rules infringements if you aren't sure. You can always make a note of it and get clarification at the end of the round if needed. Two very good reasons for doing this. The first being that winning by bending/breaking the rules or outright cheating doesn't sit right with me. The second is that you can't be certain what others have seen and you could very quickly be labelled a cheat and find that people won't want to play with you.

One example of this is when I played with Golfmad and his mate when they stayed at my old club. On the 3rd I was in a greenside bunker in two and played out onto the green. Two putts for a bogey 5. The only issue being that I had a double hit in the bunker on my follow through. As far as I knew neither of the others had seen it but when I was asked what I scored I replied "5 but I'm not sure if I need to add one or two penalty shots to that for a double hit". It turned out that they had seen the double hit and thanked me for my honesty. It didn't even cross my mind not to own up to it.

 

[MashieNiblick]

You sure no penalty?

The OP says "seems harsh when the ball barely moved a millimetre". Hmm...maybe OP was right call a penalty.

Provided the ball doesn't move there is no penalty for touching your ball with your club in the act of addressing it.

Rule 18 Ball at Rest Moved

18-2 - By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment

a. General
Except as permitted by the Rules, when a player's ball is in play, if:

(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies:
* lifts or moves the ball,
* touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing the ball), or
* causes the ball to move, or

(ii) the equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move,

the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.
​

Note that the rule includes the word "purposely". There is no penalty for touching your ball accidentally, again provided it doesn't move.

Decision 18-2a/31 Ball Touched Accidentally in Removing Loose Impediments

Q. In removing loose impediments from the vicinity of his ball lying through the green, the player accidentally touches the ball with his hand but does not move it. Is there any penalty?

A. No. Under Rule 18-2a there is only a penalty if the player, his partner or either of their caddies purposely touches the player's ball; it may be touched accidentally provided it does not move.​

 

[Spuddy]

And if you then take your club away and the grass - with your ball on it - returns to exactly the same position as it was before? Penalty?

Then it's no penalty