Out of Order?

[timgolfy]

27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball

Q: At a par-3 hole, a player hits his tee shot into dense woods. He then hits a provisional ball which comes to rest near the hole. In view of the position of the provisional ball, the player does not wish to find his original ball. He does not search for it and walks directly towards his provisional ball to continue play with it. His opponent (or fellow-competitor) believes it would be beneficial to him if the original ball were found. May the opponent (or fellow-competitor) search for the player's ball?

A: Yes. In equity (Rule 1-4) he may search for five minutes provided that in the meantime the player does not play a stroke with the provisional ball, it being nearer the hole than the place where the original ball is likely to be. The player is entitled to play such a stroke. If he does, the original ball is then lost under Rule 27-2b and further search for it would serve no purpose. In match play, if the player so proceeds and his provisional ball is closer to the hole than his opponent's ball, his opponent may recall the stroke (Rule 10-1c). However, recalling the stroke would not change the status of the original ball, which was lost when the provisional ball was played out of turn. See also Decision 27-2c/2.

 

[timgolfy]

In other words, he should have sprinted to the green with his putter to make his putt. Even if played out of turn that would still be the ball in play if the original had not been found at that point.

Now that would be a funny scene!

 

[Mongoose]

You were correct within the rules, but not within the spirit of the game. Its not a win at any costs game, its not football. As soon as your opponent requested you not to look and move on you should respect his wishes. Say the situations were reversed, you would have been here moaning that your opponent looked for your ball after you had politely asked him not to. You cant have it both ways, you play with good spirit and sportsmanship, you cant pick and choose when to be sporting, if you do then you arent a real golfer.

 

[timgolfy]

Sorry Mongoose, but rule 27-2b/1 clearly states that the opponent is entitled to search for the ball. Surely the phrase "in equity" indicates that this is the exact spirit of the rules?

 

[Fyldewhite]

You were correct within the rules, but not within the spirit of the game. Its not a win at any costs game, its not football. As soon as your opponent requested you not to look and move on you should respect his wishes. Say the situations were reversed, you would have been here moaning that your opponent looked for your ball after you had politely asked him not to. You cant have it both ways, you play with good spirit and sportsmanship, you cant pick and choose when to be sporting, if you do then you arent a real golfer.

Absolutely disagree. He has manipulated the rules by playing a "provisional" when, so long as he hit it well, he had no intention of looking for his first ball. This could hardly be considered a "sporting" choice either. The decisions listed above are clear in that the rule works both ways, particularly in matchplay. In equity means doing what's fair and the player was entirely within his rights to look for the ball.

 

[Yerman]

But you're right, its a race, can he get to and play his provisional before you find his ball, that should pick up the pace of play!!

 

[timgolfy]

If it were a hole in one (three), the provisional ball becomes the ball in play when it is picked out of the cup.

Can you imagine the comedy scene? Prov shot, hole in one. Players stand and look at each other for a moment. Then both dump everything, with player A sprinting 230 yards to the green to pick the ball out of the cup, and play B sprinting to the gorse to find original!

 

[G_Mulligan]

If it were a hole in one (three), the provisional ball becomes the ball in play when it is picked out of the cup.

Can you imagine the comedy scene? Prov shot, hole in one. Players stand and look at each other for a moment. Then both dump everything, with player A sprinting 230 yards to the green to pick the ball out of the cup, and play B sprinting to the gorse to find original!

Now thats the true spirit of golf

 

[richart]

If it were a hole in one (three), the provisional ball becomes the ball in play when it is picked out of the cup.

Can you imagine the comedy scene? Prov shot, hole in one. Players stand and look at each other for a moment. Then both dump everything, with player A sprinting 230 yards to the green to pick the ball out of the cup, and play B sprinting to the gorse to find original!

I would just like to say there is no way i could sprint 230 yards, so for that reason i will not be player A.

 

[Crawfy]

Fair play mate. He sounds a complete fud. You're a better man than me I'd have been tempted to flatten him in the privacy of the car park after the match.
Congrats on getting thru, good luck in the next round

 

[Hooker]

You were right because:

a. Once he declared his second ball a provisional you were entitled to look for his first. If he had declared it lost then you would have no right to look for the 1st ball.

b. Its a lot less pressure to hit a provisional ball as you technically still have the first ball in play.

If he was playing his second ball after declaring the first lost, he then has a lot more pressure on the second one off the tee as if he stuffs that into the gorse again he is potentially facing his 5th shot still behind the gorse!

IMHO!

 

[2004Champ]

You certainly weren't out of order, but your opponent was.

You done absolutely nothing wrong.

I'd tell him to go and learn the rules of the game before entering any more competitions.

 

[culrossblue]

Assuming not in a hazard I don't get what the guys beef was. If the lie was not good with the original ball found why not declare unplayable and go back to the original spot and hit 3 from there.

As said, if he wasn't wanting to have the first one in play why call the 2nd a provisional?

The guy has quite clearly lost it for nothing. Its a par 3 and he has a chance to get on in 2 even if its a really bad lie! He has took the huff because he has a chance of a 4. strange

tell me though, did you make a mess of a bunker shot(s) earlier in the round?

 

[Piece]

Sounds like a right stroker. I bet he's the type that never looks for any ball if he thinks it may cost him. The fact that he was only interested if the ball had gone through rather than just nestled on the edge shows gamesmanship. I would expect at least some degree of looking...

Anyway Baby Golfing Jesus decreed that you were right by winning the game!

 

[feary]

It comes down to the fact that if he didn't want to play it then he shouldn't have declared it a provisional.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The guy sounds a fool but he set himself up by declaring it a provisional. As it only went into the bush in front of the tee there was always going to be a good chance of finding it. He only got the hump because he couldn't manipulate the rules to suit. You won fair and square and no stain on your character

 

[Whereditgo]

You did absolutely nothing wrong, this guy is a chancer and sounds to me like he is used to getting his own way, you are to be congratulated on showing restraint against his blatant gamesmanship!

I do like the image of him huffing and puffing his way up to the green to try and play another stroke while you calmly find his original ball though!

 

[rickg]

If he had declared it lost then you would have no right to look for the 1st ball.

Wrong I'm afraid.......there is no such thing as "declaring a ball lost".

He has every right to look for his ball whether the opponent wants him to or not.

Opponent has got himself wound up for nothing and was bang out of order.

 

[Hooker]

Hmmm interesting, what if he played his second shot off the tee and not declared it a provisional. Would that then become the ball in play?

 

[bobmac]

Hmmm interesting, what if he played his second shot off the tee and not declared it a provisional. Would that then become the ball in play?

Yeup