Osteomyology.

[Foxholer]

...
Why cant the NHS do this, it works. and lets me get back to work and paying my taxes

I believe that it's purely for cost reasons!

Osteopathy has been given some credence by the NHS, though not in all (body) areas.

I also believe that there's a degree of 'protective arrogance' within the medical profession that excludes those that haven't gone through the 'accepted' process! This seems to ignore that many significant advances were made by ignoring 'accepted' practice!

 

[williamalex1]

It doesn't seem to cover North Lanarkshire., but i just checked and there is one for my area, I'll check it out , thanks DCB :thup:

Looks like it only gives advice , but I now have a number I can call. :thup:

 

[Golfmmad]

This thread reminds me of when my wife was going through her cancer treatment. She was always pro active in alternative treatments, such as herbal teas, acupuncture and even considered a faith healer. During one of her consultations she asked if these would help towards her treatment. The consultant, in a very nice way said to her, "By all means feel free to try them and if you feel they are helping you, that can be a good thing, but will add, and can assure you, that if there is anything new and a wonder treatment then this Hospital would be the first to know about it."

Oh, and when I had a back problem, when I couldn't even bend down to pick my ball out of the cup after putting out, I went to see an Osteopath and was sorted within a week!

 

[Ethan]

I believe that it's purely for cost reasons!

Osteopathy has been given some credence by the NHS, though not in all (body) areas.

I also believe that there's a degree of 'protective arrogance' within the medical profession that excludes those that haven't gone through the 'accepted' process! This seems to ignore that many significant advances were made by ignoring 'accepted' practice!

By 'accepted process' do you mean checking if it actually works and doesn't cause more harm than good? If so, I am all for the 'accepted process'.

NICE, the NHS review body no longer recommends chiropractic, osteopathy or acupuncture for low back pain, which was the only thing osteopathy was ever thought to be possibly useful for.

https://www.nice.org.uk/news/press-...ith-low-back-pain-says-nice-in-draft-guidance

 

[ManinBlack]

By 'accepted process' do you mean checking if it actually works and doesn't cause more harm than good? If so, I am all for the 'accepted process'.

NICE, the NHS review body no longer recommends chiropractic, osteopathy or acupuncture for low back pain, which was the only thing osteopathy was ever thought to be possibly useful for.

https://www.nice.org.uk/news/press-...ith-low-back-pain-says-nice-in-draft-guidance

Some years back I had a problem with neck pain which went on for a long time & resisted all NHS treatment. I visited the Chiropractor my wife used & was very, very, sceptical. Within 3 weeks I was much better & after a couple of months pain free. So don't tell me it doesn't work, it definitely wasn't going to get better by itself. Just before I saw him his wife, a qualified MD as well as Chiropractor, had done an informal study comparing relieve from painkillers with use of manipulation. The results appeared to demonstrate that manipulation worked much better. She sent her results to a medical publication, don't know which one, and they were ready to publish them. One or more of the drug companies got to hear of this & threatened to withdraw their advertising. Her results were never published.

 

[Ethan]

Some years back I had a problem with neck pain which went on for a long time & resisted all NHS treatment. I visited the Chiropractor my wife used & was very, very, sceptical. Within 3 weeks I was much better & after a couple of months pain free. So don't tell me it doesn't work, it definitely wasn't going to get better by itself. Just before I saw him his wife, a qualified MD as well as Chiropractor, had done an informal study comparing relieve from painkillers with use of manipulation. The results appeared to demonstrate that manipulation worked much better. She sent her results to a medical publication, don't know which one, and they were ready to publish them. One or more of the drug companies got to hear of this & threatened to withdraw their advertising. Her results were never published.

It doesn't work. Ask NICE. They use science rather than unverifiable anecdotes. These stories about what happened to you or your friend or third cousin twice removed are neither data nor science.

The journal probably didn't publish the so-called informal (code for crap?) study because it was rubbish. The pharma companies are not notified of forthcoming publications, and wouldn't threaten to withdraw advertising over something so trivial as that. But feel free to continue to believe in your conspiracy theory.

Plenty of real scientists have done big formal studies which show that it doesn't work. Sorry.

 

[williamalex1]

It would have been nice if they had asked me, or other sufferers who have posted on here if it worked or not.
BTW I'm still pain free after my treatment , if you're asking :thup:

 

[ManinBlack]

It doesn't work. Ask NICE. They use science rather than unverifiable anecdotes. These stories about what happened to you or your friend or third cousin twice removed are neither data nor science.

The journal probably didn't publish the so-called informal (code for crap?) study because it was rubbish. The pharma companies are not notified of forthcoming publications, and wouldn't threaten to withdraw advertising over something so trivial as that. But feel free to continue to believe in your conspiracy theory.

Plenty of real scientists have done big formal studies which show that it doesn't work. Sorry.

Another personal experience. I suffered from a very painful left knee. I visited an 85 year old osteopath recommended to me by her nephew. She used to treat successfully greyhounds & racehorses as well as humans, the former being pretty immune to the placebo effect. She took one look at me from behind & asked if I carried anything heavy over my right shoulder. I did, in an attempt to prevent a recurrence of tennis elbow caused by carrying a heavy briefcase. She worked on my back for half an hour and I walked out completely pain free. The same osteopath treated a colleague who had driven his car into an engine block which had fallen off a lorry in front of him. He was aching all over. She treated him & told him to get up. He said "I don't want to". When asked why he said "I haven't felt this comfortable since the accident".

DON'T TELL ME IT DOESN'T WORK. The establishment may want it not to work but at least some of it does. You, Ethan, are typical of the know all, mind closed to anything unorthodox, type of person found in many professions. Granted, some of it is mumbo jumbo & some of the practitioners are charlatans, but not all. I don't care what the research says, I have three personal experiences which say that some of these practitioners succeed where conventional medicine fails.

 

[ManinBlack]

unverifiable anecdotes

I'm an honest person & have related three personal experiences. There were other people who witnessed the rapid improvement brought about by these methods which you say don't work. This should prompt further investigation, not ridicule.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have had numerous back issues over the years due to playing hockey for over 20 years. My lower back was in bits with non stop pain. Have tried painkillers and anti inflam pills plus physio and exercise ( Pilates and Yoga ) and it's eased it at times. Seen a chiropractor and the pain is relieved for a good period of time - it works , there is no doubt it works.

My wife also has back issues because of hockey and also sees a chiropractor and it also works for her

One of our friends is a recently qualified chiropractor and he puts to the dismal of their practice from some doctors as pure arrogance and old age beliefs plus pressure from drug companies.

There have been many cases where chiropractor has been proven to work without causing any damage for many people.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ethan, See post 10

I cannot speak for Osteomyology, but standard Osteopathy certainly does work, If ever I have another back problem, I know who i'm gonna call, and is aint my GP

It wasnt that long ago that Doctors were prescribing cigarettes to help with lung problems.

last year salt was the big enemy, now its changed to sugar. Things move on

Clearly we have an ageing population, many of these are no burden to the NHS at all, coz they all go and see their local private osteopath or chiropractor because they know they will get results and if they go to the GP, its a waste of time. Maybe thats why the NHS is happy with the status quo

 

[williamalex1]

Ethan, See post 10

I cannot speak for Osteomyology, but standard Osteopathy certainly does work, If ever I have another back problem, I know who i'm gonna call, and is aint my GP

It wasnt that long ago that Doctors were prescribing cigarettes to help with lung problems.

last year salt was the big enemy, now its changed to sugar. Things move on

Clearly we have an ageing population, many of these are no burden to the NHS at all, coz they all go and see their local private osteopath or chiropractor because they know they will get results and if they go to the GP, its a waste of time. Maybe thats why the NHS is happy with the status quo

Seemingly that's unverifiable anecdotes

 

[Deleted member 18645]

"An ology? You get an ology, you're a scientist!"

 

[PhilTheFragger]

"An ology? You get an ology, you're a scientist!"

Someone is showing their age

 

[williamalex1]

"An ology? You get an ology, you're a scientist!"

Get an AP , what's the prob,

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Someone is showing their age

And pottery. Don't forget Anthony, people will always need plates.

 

[Ethan]

Another personal experience. I suffered from a very painful left knee. I visited an 85 year old osteopath recommended to me by her nephew. She used to treat successfully greyhounds & racehorses as well as humans, the former being pretty immune to the placebo effect. She took one look at me from behind & asked if I carried anything heavy over my right shoulder. I did, in an attempt to prevent a recurrence of tennis elbow caused by carrying a heavy briefcase. She worked on my back for half an hour and I walked out completely pain free. The same osteopath treated a colleague who had driven his car into an engine block which had fallen off a lorry in front of him. He was aching all over. She treated him & told him to get up. He said "I don't want to". When asked why he said "I haven't felt this comfortable since the accident".

DON'T TELL ME IT DOESN'T WORK. The establishment may want it not to work but at least some of it does. You, Ethan, are typical of the know all, mind closed to anything unorthodox, type of person found in many professions. Granted, some of it is mumbo jumbo & some of the practitioners are charlatans, but not all. I don't care what the research says, I have three personal experiences which say that some of these practitioners succeed where conventional medicine fails.

IT DOESN'T WORK. Sorry.

Funny how advocates of mumbo jumbo decry those who believe in science as closed minded. Perhaps better closed that someone conned into gullible magical thinking. Anyone who says 'I don't care what research says' is just such a person. Try a lucky rabbit's foot. That might work too.

 

[ManinBlack]

IT DOESN'T WORK. Sorry.

Funny how advocates of mumbo jumbo decry those who believe in science as closed minded. Perhaps better closed that someone conned into gullible magical thinking. Anyone who says 'I don't care what research says' is just such a person. Try a lucky rabbit's foot. That might work too.

So I'm a liar, kidding myself? So my very sore knee spontaneously recovered coincidentally while I was being treated by the phoney Osteopath. No way will I ever accept that. There are some frauds out there & some talented people who can do things that convention medicine can't do.

 

[Leftie]

So I'm a liar, kidding myself? So my very sore knee spontaneously recovered coincidentally while I was being treated by the phoney Osteopath. No way will I ever accept that. There are some frauds out there & some talented people who can do things that convention medicine can't do.

Sorry mate but it's so easy to be a quack now days ....

"Training courses generally lead to a bachelor’s degree in osteopathy (a BSc Hons, BOst or BOstMed) or a masters degree (MOst). Courses usually consist of four years of full-time training, five years part-time or a mixture of full or part-time. There are also courses with accelerated pathways for doctors and physiotherapists.

A degree course includes anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology, nutrition and biomechanics, plus at least 1,000 hours of clinical training. Read more about the 11 UK institutions currently accredited to provide osteopathic training."

But I suppose that doesn't really mean anything. Who would willingly go through that knowing that they wouldn't make a (positive) difference?

In my younger sporting days the changing rooms smelled of Horse Liniment and/or Deep Heat before or after the game.
Now, apparently, to get over aches and pains by seeing an Osteopath it's all Snake Oil - according to some.

A friend of the family who is an (now retired) osteopath who had clinics at two different private hospitals as well as his own private practice and taught at the British School of Osteopathy (busy man), was telling me in general terms one day of a client who came to him for treatment as her GP was unable to help her. He examined her, diagnosed a tumour that her doctor and hospital had missed, and effectively saved her life.

Anecdotal? Of course it is - but, knowing both the Osteopath and, it turned out, the patient, what do I know?

If "conventional" medicine fails me, I'll go for qualified Snake Oil (even with a rabbit's foot) every time.

 

[Ethan]

So I'm a liar, kidding myself? So my very sore knee spontaneously recovered coincidentally while I was being treated by the phoney Osteopath. No way will I ever accept that. There are some frauds out there & some talented people who can do things that convention medicine can't do.

The way that science works is that it looks at trials of various treatments compared to placebo or to standard of care. Evaluations of osteopathy, chiropractic and acupuncture have shown they are no better then getting up and moving around. The so-called science base of chiropractic and osteopathy are not in keeping with the laws of science. Some practitioners use the term osteopathy to charge more for physio, and that is fine, but the basic philosophy of osteopathy (as with chiropractic) claims that manipulating the back can affect all the other organs in the body, which is bollocks, no matter how many hours of training they do. Being trained in bollocks doesn't make it true.

I know a few American doctors who have as their medical degree a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO). This is an equivalent to an MD issued by some medical schools in the mid-west, mostly. They also agree it is bollocks.

If we relied on personal anecdote, then blow-letting, eye of newt and dancing naked in a full moon would all still be established treatments.