Opinions on BRS - Help me!

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm guessing the concept of turning up without knowing who you will be playing with isn't high on your list either?

I am not speaking for JB on this but I think this may answer your question. For comps I will put my name down with a single player or two players that I may not know. I am happy to do that. You can still have that with BRS. BRS simply guarantees your tee time.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

that's what happens a lot at my place particularly on sat mornings. We play around the same time most Sat mornings and the sheet is full till 1pm every week, but very often half don't turn up and the club has not done anything to sanction the repeat offenders on this.

This is like blaming the putter and not the person holding it. This fault is with your club, not the booking system.

Surely the same could occur at clubs where people go into the clubhouse the week before and write their name on sheet.

 

[Junior]

My club have decided to give BRS a trial. Before making the decision a poll was taken of the members. 128 voted for the trial & 120 against, so a bit Brexitish. In my view the vote should not have taken place until after the trial but at least it went the right way, in my view.

There has been an animated discussion on the club’s Facebook page with some vociferous opposition. It is proposed that, initially, BRS will only apply to competitions & visitors, whose times will be strictly controlled. Arguments against are mainly 1. It will cost the club a lot of money, i.e. one fourball a day, at a time chosen by the club. 2. People will not be able to roll up & play when they want & 3. Big group roll ups will not be able to play at their usual time because they will not know until the day how many & who are playing. 4. A general “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”

I don’t think that any of the “con” arguments hold water. I think that many of the “free” fourballs won’t be sold & the other points are easily overcome with proper management. I see the advantages as far outweighing the disadvantages.

So, opinions please. People whose clubs have BRS, how does it work? How are the perceived “cons” dealt with. What are the plus points? I intend to share this thread with my club’s Committee &, hopefully, give our members a better view of how it will work.

We had exactly the same issue at ours MIB. My opinion is that it has worked well. The roll ups have blocked out times, people can book at time for their knockouts and you can see well in advance how busy the course is. As per normal, 99.9% of the time in the evenings is pretty quiet and you dont need to book a time.

The only slight on it I have is that you have to be on the ball when the competitions open (9pm Wed evenings) if you want a specific time in the morning or early afternoon. Our competitions are always full and well supported so they fill up fast. Previously , it was a sign up sheet in the clubhouse.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I have noticed at one of the clubs, that use online booking, tee times will get booked in advance and then sometimes they go unbooked quite close to day(either day before or two). Which I always think is a bit naughty and abuse of the system but works for us as tend to book up a day or two before going, so we fit in.

Don't have a problem with online booking etc but do think that non members should not be allowed to book for a casual round until say 1-5 days prior to the day, so that members are 'given priority' over tee times especially at the weekend.

 

[jusme]

Couldn't imagine using anything else. A fair and equitable system where everyone is treated the same. I book a time and I know I'm playing that time. If I go on to look for a certain time and its gone then tough luck - I should be better organised

 

[patricks148]

This is like blaming the putter and not the person holding it. This fault is with your club, not the booking system.

Surely the same could occur at clubs where people go into the clubhouse the week before and write their name on sheet.

at no point do i say its BRS fault , i was replying to sweep in his point about a full sheet and an almost empty course, which is sometimes that case some Saturdays at mine.

The fault is def with the club, but also the members who abuse the booking System

 

[Sweep]

Sweep, I am not going to quote your whole piece but will answer your latter point. Your worry is based on an extremely busy course. Perhaps I am not fully grasping your fears because I have not experienced that. I may play after work today but I haven't even looked at BRS yet. I don't need to, I know there will be space. I may not even book, on the app on my phone, until I leave work. I can book that last minute, no need for a decision two weeks in advance. Of course I may look at the app, discover 5 x 4 balls clogging the course and decide either not to go out or go later. For me, I'd rather know that now than just turning up at the club and wasting my time.

If your course is that busy then BRS would surely tidy it up, organise it?

On comp day our numbers are not huge but booking is opened 7 days in advance. That helps prevent the blind booking out of slots as people know at that point whether they can play one week in advance or not. We don't get late drop outs as a matter of course.

It is not the bogey man that people see unless your club use it solely to sell quiet slots. If that starts to dominate then it is a different matter but that is a problem for the club not the booking system.

Thats my point. Our course is fairly busy but without BRS I have never had to wait for more than one game to be out of range of the first tee before I could go. So my question is, why extend the use of BRS to cover non competition times? It can only be to facilitate the sale of tee times to non members. So my fear is exactly that, that it will be used to sell out tee times and it will start to dominate.

I have no issue with using BRS for competition times. That’s when it works best and if it was used solely for that purpose I would recommend it to anyone.

I have no issue with the booking system. It’s a great system. My only issue and it’s a serious one is extending its use beyond booking in for competitions. I accept that this is a club issue and not a system issue. But as I said in my original reply, once the system is in place it may well prove too tempting for a club not to extend it’s use to cover all tee times.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

at no point do i say its BRS fault , i was replying to sweep in his point about a full sheet and an almost empty course, which is sometimes that case some Saturdays at mine.

The fault is def with the club, but also the members who abuse the booking System

Apologies, I was overly sensitive as people seem to be blaming the system at every turn, or looking to blame it, when it is not the system that is at fault. Your last sentence is spot on.

Sweep - Just seen your last post. Is your a members club or is it owned by someone? Will you get a chance to keep it as it is or will you get a chance to vote on it should the situation arises where the club wants to extend the booking system?

 

[Sweep]

Apologies, I was overly sensitive as people seem to be blaming the system at every turn, or looking to blame it, when it is not the system that is at fault. Your last sentence is spot on.

Sweep - Just seen your last post. Is your a members club or is it owned by someone? Will you get a chance to keep it as it is or will you get a chance to vote on it should the situation arises where the club wants to extend the booking system?

We are a members club.
The extension of the use of BRS to cover all tee times was announced a few weeks ago, so the new arrangements are now in place. There is always the option of bringing the matter to the AGM which is 9 months away or even forcing an EGM.
I have written to the committee outlining my concerns but that may make no difference.
TBH, I think a lot of members won’t be too fussed because they won’t realise what they have lost and won’t think about the potential issues. When I have spoken to members about it, their initial reaction is “what’s the problem?” When I explain it to them the look on their faces change.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My club (a members cub) did a 6month trial over a summer a couple of years back. We sorted out a way of reserving slots for roll-ups sufficient to cover most eventualities. If we found that we might need more slots on any day we sent groups out before our reserved slots if slots were available - and just extended beyond our reserved slots. It seemed to work OK.

But a vote of the membership at the end of the trial period comprehensively rejected the tee booking system for other than club competitions (normal historic club practice in any case). Main reason was loss of flexibility especially loss of being able to just turn up at the club and take your turn on the tee.

That said - we are in the fortunate position of being financially stable and have a full membership and a waiting list - so we have much less reliance on visitors and societies than we did a few years ago - though as we are all rather proud of our club and track and like to 'show it off' we would always try and be as accommodating as possible to visitors and societies - making us as accessible as possible without an on-line open BRS.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Pretty much how it is at our place - everyone knows when the roll ups go out throughout the week , and they either join in or go out when its a quiter period , all the KO's are arranged in the quieter periods and a lot of the rolls ups dont have consistent numbers.

There is no "correct" answer - what will work will be what the members want - we enjoy a free tee and people can just rock up.

Snap! One of the joys and benefits of being a member of my place (for which we pay a fair whack)

 

[jim8flog]

With the exception of comp days we never use it on Saturdays (Sats are for members only). On a Saturday you have to register with the starter which overcomes the problem of players booing a tee time and not turning up. This also stops players turning up well before the course is open, leaving a ball in the chute and disappearing until the course opens. Roll ups can book several times when they know roughly how many will be playing, we have about 5 different roll ups on a Saturday.

This system is a recent introduction and has been very well received by the members.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That is a club problem, not a BRS one. I wouldn't go near a club without BRS. Time is precious, I want to know that I can get out at a time of my choosing, one that I know in advance, and BRS allows that.

I've been at a club where you just turn up and spent too long waiting for my turn to go out. It's archaic.

I might argue that one of the issues with life today is that we perceive time as being so precious - with every 'minute or hour' to be used to some tangible benefit. When actually doing nothing sitting around waiting and enjoying a chat - or just sitting waiting - and not always having another engagement or activity planned rammed tight up against a golf window - can actually be very beneficial to our mental health and stress reduction.

But that's just the way that I try and organise my life these days - obs others (maybe as your good self) aren't able to plan their days that way. But it's nice to be able to do it if you can

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I might argue that one of the issues with life today is that we perceive time as being so precious - with every 'minute or hour' to be used to some tangible benefit. When actually doing nothing sitting around waiting and enjoying a chat - or just sitting waiting - and not always having another engagement or activity planned rammed tight up against a golf window - can actually be very beneficial to our mental health and stress reduction.

But that's just the way that I try and organise my life these days - obs others (maybe as your good self) aren't able to plan their days that way. But it's nice to be able to do it if you can

I do and I can, we have BRS for all slots every day and I can still enjoy a free tee and simply rock up and play, if there is a society I’ll know before hand if I check BRS, if I don’t check (extremely rare now I’m in the habit) and there is a society or others teeing off, I’ll wait. Genuinely struggling to see how BRS changes a Club for the worst.
I get the fact your Club is full and maybe exclusive, but surely visitors or members could still book before any online system or did you invite guests and tell them “we’ll tee off around 10, or maybe 12 if the tee is busy”

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I do and I can, we have BRS for all slots every day and I can still enjoy a free tee and simply rock up and play, if there is a society I’ll know before hand if I check BRS, if I don’t check (extremely rare now I’m in the habit) and there is a society or others teeing off, I’ll wait. Genuinely struggling to see how BRS changes a Club for the worst.
I get the fact your Club is full and maybe exclusive, but surely visitors or members could still book before any online system or did you invite guests and tell them “we’ll tee off around 10, or maybe 12 if the tee is busy”

Full - but not exclusive. And yes - visitors could call in and the pro shop would tell them when to turn up so that they would very likely be able to tee of just when they wanted to. But visitors have never been able to book a tee time.

So for instance - you want to tee off at 10am on a Wednesday. Pro shop knows that course is generally quiet first thing Wednesday morning but would advise being ready to be on the tee by 9:30am. Just in case unexpected others or members turned up.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Full - but not exclusive. And yes - visitors could call in and the pro shop would tell them when to turn up so that they would very likely be able to tee of just when they wanted to. But visitors have never been able to book a tee time.

So for instance - you want to tee off at 10am on a Wednesday. Pro shop knows that course is generally quiet first thing Wednesday morning but would advise being ready to be on the tee by 9:30am. Just in case unexpected others or members turned up.

So your plans change for the day and the wife says why don’t you go up the golf course? Prior to BRS you rocked up and if Tee busy you waited, had a chat etc, Tee empty, off you went, Society in, bugger,
BRS in place, quick look, yep, Tee empty off you go, Tee booked, I’ll go later.
The only issue to me was Sweep’s point about the Club doing it for ulterior motives.
Surely BRS is no more than a calendar of events.
As for the Pro Shop, what if there are a number visitors that phone, was there a cap on numbers or would they try and accommodate all.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I might argue that one of the issues with life today is that we perceive time as being so precious - with every 'minute or hour' to be used to some tangible benefit. When actually doing nothing sitting around waiting and enjoying a chat - or just sitting waiting - and not always having another engagement or activity planned rammed tight up against a golf window - can actually be very beneficial to our mental health and stress reduction.

But that's just the way that I try and organise my life these days - obs others (maybe as your good self) aren't able to plan their days that way. But it's nice to be able to do it if you can

It's a glorious thought, skipping through the wheat fields, bare foot on my way to golf. Arrive at the club, grab a drink, chat for 40 minutes, go out, play 18 holes, have another drink, longer chat, skip home.

In reality, I have a wife, two kids and a full time job. Kids still need ferrying around, wife still likes me enough to want to do things with me . It's a balance. I can go out to play golf in a comp and it is likely 5 hours out of my day, if I do it right, booking essential. If I skipped through those wheat fields with time not mattering then my family would be missing out, wife would be running them around on her own, it would simply not be fair. I also like doing things with them still. When the kids are grown up time will free up, retirement = even more so. I know from your posts you are at that stage so I am not having a pop at you. I am at a point where time IS precious and scarce still and I know I am lucky to be able to get out for chunks of the day to play golf. BRS allows that not to be abused, stops me from feeling guilty. I do stop and smell the roses but there is a limit to how long I can stop and sniff for.

 

[Slab]

Slight tangent but related nonetheless

While I play there more than anywhere else I’m not a member of the course closest to me

I can visit their online booking screen and view the status & availability, or otherwise, of every tee slot for the next 4 months. Not being a member the only thing I can’t do online is book so I need to call the pro-shop (but at least I know when I call that the date/time is available)
I can see whether they have a comp on or not, or a group booking & what size each tee-slot is. Whether there are option to start on 10th instead etc etc etc

Comps are planned well enough in advance as are larger groups but they can still facilitate groups on much shorter notice if needed and if that means moving a visitor back/forward or onto 10th tee then they know exactly who to contact

Its heaven as a visitor and in turn the club benefit from loads of us playing there regularly (to the point we are probably more known faces with the staff than many of the members)


Not sure how many members club members are paying sufficiently high annual subs that a course needs to remain ‘vacant’ just in case a member decides to rock up for 18 holes with no notice, it would certainly need to be more than most forummers quote on those threads

 

[GB72]

I appreciate that this is a totally selfish point of view but the simple fact is that at the weekend I want to play around 9.00. This gives me time for a relaxed round, a drink after and I still have the afternoon to do real world stuff.
I can only use my old club as an example but if I was up the club at 8.30 then I could guarantee that I was teeing off by 9.00 (helped by having 3 starting points). If you introduced a booking system then I would have no such guarantee. If the times between let’s say 8.00 and 10.00 booked quickly I may not be able to play that weekend as there is no time before to do anything and you are looking at late afternoon/early evening afterwards. As I can only play at weekends, that would potentially result in less golf and that may result in me questioning my need to be a member.
Booking systems also remove a degree of flexibility. Let’s say I have booked my tee time and something comes up, I need to play an hour later. Playing partners are fine with that but all the tee times are booked. Again, no golf for me. No booking system, we turn up a bit before we want to play, queue for a little while and off we go, weekend golf intact.
You also have to be careful about what time the tee bookings are opened up. Open them up on a work day during working hours and there is no chance of me getting in quick to book.
I think another factor is the type of club. I am now at a hotel course and revenue is king so a tee booking system is essential for them. At my old club it was a private members club with nobody allowed on the course except members and guests and so just turning up worked.
To me, the system at my old club was the happy medium. You had tee booking for comps to allow them to run smoothly and you had the ability to book in societies during the week and those times were well publicised (including on a board by the first tee that had all booked slots for the next week). Seemed fair and equitable and gave most people what they were looking for.

 

[Slab]

I appreciate that this is a totally selfish point of view but the simple fact is that at the weekend I want to play around 9.00. This gives me time for a relaxed round, a drink after and I still have the afternoon to do real world stuff.
I can only use my old club as an example but if I was up the club at 8.30 then I could guarantee that I was teeing off by 9.00 (helped by having 3 starting points). If you introduced a booking system then I would have no such guarantee. If the times between let’s say 8.00 and 10.00 booked quickly I may not be able to play that weekend as there is no time before to do anything and you are looking at late afternoon/early evening afterwards. As I can only play at weekends, that would potentially result in less golf and that may result in me questioning my need to be a member.
Booking systems also remove a degree of flexibility. Let’s say I have booked my tee time and something comes up, I need to play an hour later. Playing partners are fine with that but all the tee times are booked. Again, no golf for me. No booking system, we turn up a bit before we want to play, queue for a little while and off we go, weekend golf intact.
You also have to be careful about what time the tee bookings are opened up. Open them up on a work day during working hours and there is no chance of me getting in quick to book.
I think another factor is the type of club. I am now at a hotel course and revenue is king so a tee booking system is essential for them. At my old club it was a private members club with nobody allowed on the course except members and guests and so just turning up worked.
To me, the system at my old club was the happy medium. You had tee booking for comps to allow them to run smoothly and you had the ability to book in societies during the week and those times were well publicised (including on a board by the first tee that had all booked slots for the next week). Seemed fair and equitable and gave most people what they were looking for.

How does that work?

If in the real world there's only a maximum of 16 groups even want to play at that time (assuming a 10 minute spacing between 8;30 -9;00 and 3 start points) and no visitors are permitted that day

What would change with a booking system to make you lose your guarantee?

Who's going to take it from you, you say yourself there's never more than enough groups to suffer a 30 minute delay so there's no demand, why would that change

Unless there is a demand but its put off turning up because the same 16 groups are always there hogging the tee and not giving anyone else a chance