OOB & provisional question

[Blade7]

[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Right, here's the situation/question: Played in a medal golf comp yesterday with a guy who played off about 7. I'm no rules expert, and considering he was more experienced I found it difficult to question him in the following situation, even though it didn't seem right to me or the other guy who was in our 3 ball. So I wonder if someone can help. The player in question hit his first ball clearly OOB. Then played a provisional. However, after searching he had lost his provisional, but did find his first ball OOB. He then went back to tee and played again, but claiming he was now only playing 3 as he had found his first ball that had gone OOB! Both myself and other player were sure he should have been playing 5?? Any ideas? [/FONT]

 

[Ethan]

[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Right, here's the situation/question: Played in a medal golf comp yesterday with a guy who played off about 7. I'm no rules expert, and considering he was more experienced I found it difficult to question him in the following situation, even though it didn't seem right to me or the other guy who was in our 3 ball. So I wonder if someone can help. The player in question hit his first ball clearly OOB. Then played a provisional. However, after searching he had lost his provisional, but did find his first ball OOB. He then went back to tee and played again, but claiming he was now only playing 3 as he had found his first ball that had gone OOB! Both myself and other player were sure he should have been playing 5?? Any ideas? [/FONT]

OK, once he found the first ball OOB, then the provisional was the ball in play and he had played 3 off the tee and the provisional was no longer provisional. Then if he is unable to locate the second ball, he must play another off the tee, or if it is virtually certain that the second ball was in a hazard, proceed under the rules available.

I think the player is either uncertain of the rules or was taking the mickey.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

once 1st ball confirmed as OOB provisional is the ball in play. If that was lost then he was playing 5

 

[Ethan]

Decision 27-2c/4 cover this nicely

Q. A player finds both his original ball and his provisional ball out of bounds. The balls were played from the tee. When the player returns to the tee and plays another ball, has he taken 3 strokes or 5?

A. The player will have taken 5 strokes when he plays the third ball from the tee. A stroke played with a provisional ball and any penalty related to it are not disregarded unless the provisional ball is abandoned as provided in Rule 27-2c.

 

[Blade7]

Thanks for replies! I will trust my rules knowledge in the future.

Lucky his score was naff and the 2 shots he saved didn't do him any good!

 

[duncan mackie]

[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Right, here's the situation/question: Played in a medal golf comp yesterday with a guy who played off about 7. I'm no rules expert, and considering he was more experienced I found it difficult to question him in the following situation, ..... [/FONT]

other's have confirmed that you were correct to be concerned!

the key here is not to 'question him' beyond a simple "are you sure?"; if he says yes you simply respond "OK - we'll sort it out when we get back in then".

when you get back in you refer it; don't sit in the bar arguing about it, and even avoid further discussion about it, but refer it to who ever handles such situations at the club.

you can go a little further and suggest that it's resolved before he signs and returns his card when you get back - it's in his interests because in this case he would have 2 more shots to sign for, but if he had returned the lower score he would be DQ.

you really don't need to get involved - just pass it on to the committee, or who ever they authorise.

 

[chrisd]

other's have confirmed that you were correct to be concerned!

the key here is not to 'question him' beyond a simple "are you sure?"; if he says yes you simply respond "OK - we'll sort it out when we get back in then".

when you get back in you refer it; don't sit in the bar arguing about it, and even avoid further discussion about it, but refer it to who ever handles such situations at the club.

you can go a little further and suggest that it's resolved before he signs and returns his card when you get back - it's in his interests because in this case he would have 2 more shots to sign for, but if he had returned the lower score he would be DQ.

you really don't need to get involved - just pass it on to the committee, or who ever they authorise.

Quite correct - and it would save a lot of bad feeling!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Unfortunately there have been a couple of times when I can tell that a fellow player has taken umbrage on my suggestion that he might not have his decision correct according to the rules. And that can make for a bit of tenseness. And it is hard not to feel a bit guilty and stupid if he is proved to be correct asnd that you are wrong. But hey. You pull someone for his own good and for the good of all other competitors - not for yourself.

 

[mashleyR7]

Quite correct - and it would save a lot of bad feeling!

Chris out of interest on a medal sunday there wouldn't be anyone about at the club to ask or refer to so how would this be dealt with?

 

[duncan mackie]

Chris out of interest on a medal sunday there wouldn't be anyone about at the club to ask or refer to so how would this be dealt with?

if there really isn't anyone at all in authority then a note in the box with the card is the only option - it's not ideal and carries issues but the committee failure to have anyone available has to be overcome somehow!

there's also the telephone...(not during the round - makes rulings a nightmare!)

 

[mashleyR7]

There's the pro, never any office staff, or the barman or the catering girl! A note in the box it would have to be. Although someone does collect them as some point on the same day as the result are often on HDID in the evening.

 

[MashieNiblick]

The pro should be able to advise you on the Rules, even if not in an official capacity.

 

[CMAC]

Carry a rules book with you, GM kindly provided everyone with one a few months ago in the mag:thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Carry a rules book with you, GM kindly provided everyone with one a few months ago in the mag:thup:

in the situation outlined, despite having a rule book and knowing it! I wouldn't get involved in any discussion on the course - no benefit to anyone at all and a load of downsides.

 

[chrisd]

There's the pro, never any office staff, or the barman or the catering girl! A note in the box it would have to be. Although someone does collect them as some point on the same day as the result are often on HDID in the evening.

Often the Secretary or his assistant comes in later so that the cards for the pm starters are in too. The Pro is an option but my experience is that most Pro's have less understanding of the rules than most. The Pro at ours is in telephone or email contact with the secretary during the weekend quite often and there are some more knowledgeable people about and some of us carry rule books.

 

[mikee247]

Thanks for replies! I will trust my rules knowledge in the future.

Lucky his score was naff and the 2 shots he saved didn't do him any good!

Unfortunately good round or not hes signed for incorrect score and has to be DQ'd. It may well have an effect on the overall standard scratch. Situations like this are best left until you have finished the round and you double check with the pro then enter the score on that hole once confirmed. He should know better off that handicap.:angry: Any ball that goes OOB is OOB and it doesn't matter if you find it or not its irrelevant. 5 off the tee