DeanoMK
Club Champion
But say there's a front pin, you're basically aiming to land it short and hope it rolls out the right amount?
I just don't get how you can go off total rather than carry, there's so many variables, you're a mad man.
Old Man Yardages
- Thread starter nickjdavis
- Start date
I just don't get how you can go off total rather than carry, there's so many variables, you're a mad man.
D-S
Well-known member
There are enough variables in distance to start with for carry e.g. wind, elevation temperature, but to add in another when calculating cover distance by having to deduct roll seems strange to say the least.
The Squirrel
Well-known member
To be fair I get what @Orikoru is saying.....
The idea is to finish pin high, not for the ball to hit the ground pin high.
Therefore total is the one that actually matters 99% of the time - that number is the one that corresponds to what you're trying to achieve.
If you're all working purely off your known carry distance then you're having to add on roll out every approach shot - and as a variable based on current conditions.
Every single shot you're having to take your known carry distance, then adjusting that for lots of variables, then adding an estimated rollout distance - affected by and adjust for even more variables. You're certainly not dealing with any fewer variables doing it this way.
It's quicker and easier to take total distance and simply adjust that.
Not as precise but then we're not PGA tour standard and our dispersion is far far far larger than any 1-2 yd difference in calcuation accuracy caused by 1 step rather than 2.
Let's be honest; for the average handicapper (so we're not talking spinning balls backwards like tour players), with any mid/high iron, try ing to assess safety over a hazard, just assuming that your carry will be about 10 yards less than your total will be good enough; 20 yards for hybrids and high woods. Adjust these numbers if you hit the ball in a weird/unusual way. Job done.
The idea is to finish pin high, not for the ball to hit the ground pin high.
Therefore total is the one that actually matters 99% of the time - that number is the one that corresponds to what you're trying to achieve.
If you're all working purely off your known carry distance then you're having to add on roll out every approach shot - and as a variable based on current conditions.
Every single shot you're having to take your known carry distance, then adjusting that for lots of variables, then adding an estimated rollout distance - affected by and adjust for even more variables. You're certainly not dealing with any fewer variables doing it this way.
It's quicker and easier to take total distance and simply adjust that.
Not as precise but then we're not PGA tour standard and our dispersion is far far far larger than any 1-2 yd difference in calcuation accuracy caused by 1 step rather than 2.
Let's be honest; for the average handicapper (so we're not talking spinning balls backwards like tour players), with any mid/high iron, try ing to assess safety over a hazard, just assuming that your carry will be about 10 yards less than your total will be good enough; 20 yards for hybrids and high woods. Adjust these numbers if you hit the ball in a weird/unusual way. Job done.
rulie
Head Pro
Just know your own game and get on with it, please! 
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
In ireland its that wet all the time our carry is our total. 
Orikoru
Tour Winner
No, I just aim for middle of green instead of back of green if it's a front pin. Or if there's a hazard short then I still aim for the back of the green and ignore the pin. I don't massively care to hit it close, the aim is just to hit the green.
rulie
Head Pro
I guess that's so you can get on with your putting?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Well that is usually what one does once one is on the green isn't it?I guess that's so you can get on with your putting?
rulie
Head Pro
Is the roll that the simulators provide realistic? What are the simulators simulating wrt fairways and greens? Are they all set the same?
nickjdavis
Head Pro
The trackman system that I used, when I first used it to play a "round of golf" you could set the stimp of the putting green which no doubt affected roll out.....but when in range mode....i guess there is a standard setting but even across different systems that will give different results depending on the algorithms used by the software programmer.
Ii'm not interested in total yardage given by LM's and simulators for exactly this reason. You simply dont know the underlying calculation or assumptions that results in the numbers that are presented.
Carry distance however? There has been 600 years or so study of ballistics....so i have a lot more confidence in such numbers.
Burnsey
Well-known member
I was clubbing up 2 clubs in todays wind to get my regular distances, due to wind and temperature.
Jason.H
Well-known member
I always work from carry numbers. In the winter looking to carry pin high. As for wind it’s all feel like a 10mph into will be 1 club more or a club less for downwind.
I’m with you on this. I always worked off total distance, adjusting for conditions. Those that do it differently aren’t doing it wrong, they just gauge the variables differently.
But rather than split hairs over either version, here’s a thought. My 8 iron was my 145 club. On a cold, soft ground day it might be 142 but on a hot firm day it might be 149 - all including roll out. None of those numbers are absolute - a clean strike, a puff of breeze, a blade of grass or a bitter of moisture will all affect the distance.
The window I’m playing to on an average day is 145+/- a variable. But 7 yards, 3.5 yards either side of a pin, is a damn good result. And if there’s a hazard short I’m not looking at the pin anyway. Seems common sense to me.
Hoganman1
Well-known member
These posts are all very interesting and I've learned a lot. I'm 76 with two torn rotator cuffs, but can still play. Obviously, it's taken a while to overcome my ego about personal distances. Playing the same course for over forty years, I still remember playing a driver and six iron into our 380 yard tenth hole. I finally came to realization that the goal is to make a par four or better. Now I play that hole from 340 yards with a driver and a five wood but come up short half of the time. If I play a good pitch and putt I can make a four. I know golfers love to brag about how far they play each club but for me it ain't how it's how many. Remember a par four made with a driver, a five wood, an approach wedge and a six foot putt beats a bogey made by Rory McIlroy.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I consider carry and total expected, estimated wind speed and direction at ground level compared with estimated wind speed and direction at 30ft, temperature, humidity, uphill/downhill/flat and whether I'm feeling fit-and-strong or knackered.
Then I whack it the same as ever and hope for the best.
Then I whack it the same as ever and hope for the best.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think carry is consistent. ( if struck properly)
Roll out depends on so many variables you can’t be sure so best guess .
Roll out depends on so many variables you can’t be sure so best guess .
nickjdavis
Head Pro
...any way....the next stage of the winter examination of me and my bag will take place tomorrow.
Took delivery of a 9 wood late last week and tomorrows test will see how it sits in with/overlaps/might replace my current 6 iron and 5 hybrid. Will be using the same Wilson Triad balls as I did for the stats in the opening post and will also be hitting the 8 iron down to 7-wood just in case I'm swinging markedly differently to the other week. Will post the results up tomorrow evening all being well.
If I have time I might also hit half a dozen balls each of the Triad and the Wilson Staff Model X with the driver. I put the Model X (2024/25 version) into play today and cannot remember the last time I hit driver quite so well and so far. The ball just seemed to leave the clubface with so much more energy than I'm used to with the Triad. This will be a precursor to a wider ranging ball test encompassing several makes/models but so excited I was by the Model X's performance today I've decided to have a sneak preview comparison if I've got the time.
Took delivery of a 9 wood late last week and tomorrows test will see how it sits in with/overlaps/might replace my current 6 iron and 5 hybrid. Will be using the same Wilson Triad balls as I did for the stats in the opening post and will also be hitting the 8 iron down to 7-wood just in case I'm swinging markedly differently to the other week. Will post the results up tomorrow evening all being well.
If I have time I might also hit half a dozen balls each of the Triad and the Wilson Staff Model X with the driver. I put the Model X (2024/25 version) into play today and cannot remember the last time I hit driver quite so well and so far. The ball just seemed to leave the clubface with so much more energy than I'm used to with the Triad. This will be a precursor to a wider ranging ball test encompassing several makes/models but so excited I was by the Model X's performance today I've decided to have a sneak preview comparison if I've got the time.
