Ok, so you got me riled......

CrapHacker

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This is a pro Arsenal post, so for any Spurs fans out there, look away now ( or argue the toss, whichever is more fun ;) )

This stuff about Arsenal not winning anything is raising it's rediculous head again.

There are 2 teams in the country that have won anything worthwhile in the last few years. Man Utd and Chelski.

That's it. I'm ignoring Liverpool's CL win because it was in 2005.

So....

Arsenal are in the top 4 of the League ( again ). Last year we were favourites to win the League until Eduardo got crocked, and our season fell apart. ( Chelsea have shown this year how hard it is to go all the way when your top goal scorer is unavailable ).

I honestly believe that we would have gone on to win the title if that hadn't happened. Ok, so our squad isn't the strongest. Well that just makes it more impressive that we can hang around with the big boys the way we do.

And I do mean the big boys. Wenger made sure we were competitive all the while we were playing on a level playing field. In fact for a few years there in the early part of the century, we were the best team in the country.

Then Chelski and Abramovic came in and raised the ante, financially.

That's what has caused Arsenal the problems we are suffering nowadays. We are not one of the biggest clubs financially. We never have been one of the richest clubs just because..... Whenever we have any money it's because we have earned it.

Arsenal are one of loads of London clubs. We're not just one of two like most Cities have. Man Utd and Liverpool have always ( well in the last 40 years anyway ) had a monopoly on their city's fanbase, and so have been assured of huge sums of money. ( Other cities, like Newcastle also have huge sums of money coming in, but they haven't achieved as much as Arsenal have in the last 20 years, or ever as the case may be ).

Chelsea raised the batton, financially, and only Man Utd were big enough to go with them. Since then, Liverpool, and now Man City have jumped on the bandwagon of selling out to multi millionaire owners plowing money in hand over fist.

To varying shades of success, and the integrity of the club.

Arsenal have NEVER been a club to buy success. ( Apart from the 1920s, maybe - I'm not sure, I can't remember it so well nowadays ). In the 70s we had the best youth policy, but couldn't hold on to Brady or Stapleton because of our wage structure. Similarly in the late 80s and early 90s.

Our board have ALWAYS looked at the long term security of the club. We have the best board in the country. How many times over the years have we needed to query the motives of our owners ?

At the moment we can't / won't run the risk of financial ruin because of players' wage demands. But we have invested hugely in the best stadium in the country. Which is a drain on what money we do have, limiting Wengers budget to buy players.

I could go on ( even more than I have ), but you get the drift.

Arsenal haven't won anything worthwhile in the last 4 years. But then who has ? Man Utd and Chelsea.

I don't respect Chelsea's achievements - sorry but it's true. With that kind of money if anything it's a disgrace that they haven't walked off with everything. If I was Abramovic, I'd be thinking about giving up, then where do Chelsea go ? Only one way.

Man Utd are the best team in the country. Horrible to say, but true. Their manger has proven himself time and again, although I can't stand him as a personality. BUT they only managed to hang on by selling out to the highest bidder, and putting themselves at huge financial risk. At the moment they are carrying it off, but, having seen what happened to Leeds, what happens if they have that one bad season ? It appears the American gamble is working, at least temporarily.

Liverpool have spend millions on nearly getting better.

Spurs have yoyo'd up and down without quite knowing what they are trying to achieve - are they aiming for the CL or fighting off relegation, I dunno.

Newcastle are laughable. Villa aren't quite good enough. Everton need more money. City need a new boss.

Etc, etc, etc. If I haven't mentioned your side, that's because you're not as good as we are.

So.......

Arsenal are the second best team in the country at the moment.

But we have the best stadium.

The best youth development set up.

We play the best football.

And we have the best manager.

For all you closet fans, and Arsenal bashers alike, stick it where it don't shine. If you want success at any cost support Chelsea. If you're happy running the risk of your success collapsing round you like it did to Leeds, support Man utd, by all means. If you're happy with a team that hasn't won the Premier League EVER, support Liverpool.

Or Spurs. Or Newcastle. Or Middlesborough. Or Everton. Or basically anyone you want.

But please, don't try to tell me that not winning the Premiership is reason to sack your manager. Otherwise every club in the country would be doing it. Oh yeah they have been - only it doesn't work does it.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

CarpeDiem

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But you say that Arsenal play the best football why don't they look like scoring, I feel that they have really missed the attacking prowess of Henry. Although they must be doing something right because they are still keeping up with Man U and Chelsea.
 

CrapHacker

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But you say that Arsenal play the best football why don't they look like scoring, I feel that they have really missed the attacking prowess of Henry. Although they must be doing something right because they are still keeping up with Man U and Chelsea.

I say Arshavin !!

and smile :) :)

( And don't forget injuries to Walcott and Eduardo don't help )
 

vig

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A very emotional retort CH.
I tend to agree with MOST of it but won't pick holes in it.

I admire Arsenal as a "footballing" team and fair play they haven't sold out,,, yet!

I am a Barnsley fan so have no vested interest in most parts of your argument.

Wenger best manager? No!, great manager yes!
 

Dodger

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This is a pro Arsenal post, so for any Spurs fans out there, look away now ( or argue the toss, whichever is more fun ;) )

This stuff about Arsenal not winning anything is raising it's rediculous head again.

There are 2 teams in the country that have won anything worthwhile in the last few years. Man Utd and Chelski.

That's it. I'm ignoring Liverpool's CL win because it was in 2005.

So....

Arsenal are in the top 4 of the League ( again ). Last year we were favourites to win the League until Eduardo got crocked, and our season fell apart. ( Chelsea have shown this year how hard it is to go all the way when your top goal scorer is unavailable ).

I honestly believe that we would have gone on to win the title if that hadn't happened. Ok, so our squad isn't the strongest. Well that just makes it more impressive that we can hang around with the big boys the way we do.

And I do mean the big boys. Wenger made sure we were competitive all the while we were playing on a level playing field. In fact for a few years there in the early part of the century, we were the best team in the country.

Then Chelski and Abramovic came in and raised the ante, financially.

That's what has caused Arsenal the problems we are suffering nowadays. We are not one of the biggest clubs financially. We never have been one of the richest clubs just because..... Whenever we have any money it's because we have earned it.

Arsenal are one of loads of London clubs. We're not just one of two like most Cities have. Man Utd and Liverpool have always ( well in the last 40 years anyway ) had a monopoly on their city's fanbase, and so have been assured of huge sums of money. ( Other cities, like Newcastle also have huge sums of money coming in, but they haven't achieved as much as Arsenal have in the last 20 years, or ever as the case may be ).

Chelsea raised the batton, financially, and only Man Utd were big enough to go with them. Since then, Liverpool, and now Man City have jumped on the bandwagon of selling out to multi millionaire owners plowing money in hand over fist.

To varying shades of success, and the integrity of the club.

Arsenal have NEVER been a club to buy success. ( Apart from the 1920s, maybe - I'm not sure, I can't remember it so well nowadays ). In the 70s we had the best youth policy, but couldn't hold on to Brady or Stapleton because of our wage structure. Similarly in the late 80s and early 90s.

Our board have ALWAYS looked at the long term security of the club. We have the best board in the country. How many times over the years have we needed to query the motives of our owners ?

At the moment we can't / won't run the risk of financial ruin because of players' wage demands. But we have invested hugely in the best stadium in the country. Which is a drain on what money we do have, limiting Wengers budget to buy players.

I could go on ( even more than I have ), but you get the drift.

Arsenal haven't won anything worthwhile in the last 4 years. But then who has ? Man Utd and Chelsea.

I don't respect Chelsea's achievements - sorry but it's true. With that kind of money if anything it's a disgrace that they haven't walked off with everything. If I was Abramovic, I'd be thinking about giving up, then where do Chelsea go ? Only one way.

Man Utd are the best team in the country. Horrible to say, but true. Their manger has proven himself time and again, although I can't stand him as a personality. BUT they only managed to hang on by selling out to the highest bidder, and putting themselves at huge financial risk. At the moment they are carrying it off, but, having seen what happened to Leeds, what happens if they have that one bad season ? It appears the American gamble is working, at least temporarily.

Liverpool have spend millions on nearly getting better.

Spurs have yoyo'd up and down without quite knowing what they are trying to achieve - are they aiming for the CL or fighting off relegation, I dunno.

Newcastle are laughable. Villa aren't quite good enough. Everton need more money. City need a new boss.

Etc, etc, etc. If I haven't mentioned your side, that's because you're not as good as we are.

So.......

Arsenal are the second best team in the country at the moment.

But we have the best stadium.

The best youth development set up.

We play the best football.

And we have the best manager.

For all you closet fans, and Arsenal bashers alike, stick it where it don't shine. If you want success at any cost support Chelsea. If you're happy running the risk of your success collapsing round you like it did to Leeds, support Man utd, by all means. If you're happy with a team that hasn't won the Premier League EVER, support Liverpool.

Or Spurs. Or Newcastle. Or Middlesborough. Or Everton. Or basically anyone you want.

But please, don't try to tell me that not winning the Premiership is reason to sack your manager. Otherwise every club in the country would be doing it. Oh yeah they have been - only it doesn't work does it.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


:D :D ;) ;)
Best this best that but still you have won nothing in the last 5 years (bar the joke cup that is the FA Cup),I'll say it again NOTHING but hey you do have some fine youngsters who play some great football.

Sorry couldn't resist! ;)
 
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birdieman

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The great unbeaten league season Arsenal team of Keown, Adams, Dixon, Petit, Parlour, Viera etc had toughness, the current team are lacking some but do play attractive football.

They need someone in the midfield with some bite - a Keane/Viera/Gattuso/Essien type character.

At the end of the day attractive football isn't enough, results matter and Arsenal aren't able to tough it out over a league season as well as some.

Regarding last night, it was a one-off. The early goals (both of which had a degree of fortune about them) killed the tie off and both teams knew it. That doesn't make Arsenal a poor team, if they'd scored first it would have been game on.

I was looking forward to it, let the wife watch Eastenders thinking I'd see 75 minutes of the game, flicked over and it was 0-2, didn't really bother watching after that as the tie was finished as a contest :(.
 

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"We play the best football "

errr.....when ? Certainly no evidence of it in either game against Man U .

There is a huge gulf in the Premiership, and almost certainly only the top 4 that realistically have a chance of being anywhere near to winning it. But sadly, and I agree its perhaps because of lack of spending power, Arsenal just havent cut it. However, I agree its right not to sell yourself to the devil in the hope.....

I know there are Man U haters out there, but you have to be honest about it, they do at least do things with at least half the team from these shores, and whatever you think about Arsenal's youth policy, I havent yet seen one of them perform to the extent of Darren Fletcher, John O'shea, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, or Johnny Evans even. Lost more on the sidelines too.

In both games against Man U, some supposed 'world class' players for Arsenal were simply woeful, I mean, Fabregas was on the pitch but might well have not been.
Walcott was non existant, Adabayor was pathetic, and only Nasri looked anywhere near the same class, or had any fight in him.

Im seriously hoping for a Barca win tonight as I genuinely think it would at least have a chance of being a final to savour.
 

CrapHacker

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I admire Arsenal as a "footballing" team and fair play they haven't sold out,,, yet! Shh - don't even go there. My biggest fear tbh.

I am a Barnsley fan so have no vested interest in most parts of your argument.

Wenger best manager? No!, great manager yes! Obv that's in my VERY humble opinion. There Definately isn't anyone out there that is better, that has the long term future of Arsenal at heart, and that we can afford

:cool:
 

CrapHacker

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The great unbeaten league season Arsenal team of Keown, Adams, Dixon, Petit, Parlour, Viera etc had toughness, the current team are lacking some but do play attractive football.

They need someone in the midfield with some bite - a Keane/Viera/Gattuso/Essien type character.

At the end of the day attractive football isn't enough, results matter and Arsenal aren't able to tough it out over a league season as well as some.

Regarding last night, it was a one-off. The early goals (both of which had a degree of fortune about them) killed the tie off and both teams knew it. That doesn't make Arsenal a poor team, if they'd scored first it would have been game on.

(.

Yes about the bite in midfield. But having said that we were soooo close last year, so I have to have hope for every season.

A couple of top defenders and a midfielder, and I'd be really, REALLY happy. But that is unlikely to happen, I'm afraid.

But I get more :D :D :D per pound than I used to in the mid 70s and 80s.

So that'll do me, for now at least.
 

Ste_Denial

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i have to admit that when arsenal are playing good football they are the best to watch, but the thing is, is that hasnt happened that often this season.
 

CrapHacker

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:D :D ;) ;)
Best this best that but still you have won nothing in the last 5 years (bar the joke cup that is the FA Cup),I'll say it again NOTHING but hey you do have some fine youngsters who play some great football.

Sorry couldn't resist! ;)

You again. Grrrrrrrrr

:mad: !!!!!!!




;)
 

GB72

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I know it will never happen so do not have a go at me about it not being realistic but the only way to keep sport level and interesting is to have a salary cap. Compare those that do with those that don't and see how close the leagues are and how many different teams win them when a salary cap is on place. The rugby premiership had about 6 teams all looking to reach the end of season playoff and most games at the end of the season meant something. Introduce a salary cap and you will see who is the best team with the best manager.

And I do agree that Arsenal play some lovely football and have some great young players but the problem is that they need to win something to keep them.
 

theeaglehunter

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The problem with arsenal and the other members of the 'big four' is they can never accept they are wrong / deserved to loose. There is always an excuse. I'm sorry but claiming you lost the league because Eduardo broke his leg...pull the other one!

As for...
Best Stadium- debatable
Best Youth Development- NO!
Play the best football- a few years ago yes, not anymore though. Stop clinging to the Henry era ;)

Also I may be wrong, but whilst Arsenal admittedly don't splash the cash to the extent of other clubs in terms of transfer fees (Wenger is great at spotting a bargain to be fair) I am pretty certain they are in line with the top 4 with their wage structure currently. Maybe not quite actually, but Arsenal pay a lot more than any club out of the big four. Don't try and kid yourself otherwise. As an example Tottenham have spent more on transfers yes, but nobody at the lane earns £100,000 a week like what Arshavin etc are on.

You do make some fair arguments in your post, but I'm afraid a lot of it is inaccurate in my opinion and it just seems to be a desperate attempt to cling to the small strand of pride remaining at the Emirates after last nights embarrassment. Oh and as for Arsenal fans...you'd have though there was an outbreak of swine flu at the emirates the way the ground was emptying after 60 minutes ;)

Did me being a Tottenham fan just have an influence on that final paragraph...maybe! :cool: The rest is pretty neutral though! :eek:
 

USER1999

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For those fans out there who want to understand the position Arsenal are in, and what Wenger has done for the club, a good book to read is Arsenal, the making of a modern super club. This explains the fiancial situation, and also why certain players were bought or sold.

For those that don't, or aren't fans, you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. All you are looking at is results and what you read in the red tops.

For a middle sized club like Arsenal, run on a sound finacial footing, they are doing way better than they should be, and that is down to Wenger. We will never be able to compete with United, or Chelsea, and maybe soon City, in terms of transfers, or salaries. Just getng into the CL is an achievement, which we have done for about 10 years.

No, the current team are not as good as a few years ago, but that is life. Neither is toons or boros, and they are going down, while we are fourth, again.

Realisticaly, the FA cup is a trophy Arsenal could win, but the Premier league goes to the best team, and that is United, and will be for the foreseeable future. It is no disgrace to lose to them (that hurt, but it is true).
 

Parmo

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The best youth development set up.

You mean you raid african nations for children and then send them to your feeder team in the EU for 5 years then bring them over when they can claim an EU passport... really great that one, and your young guns seem to be flapping all the time. Its only a matter of time before Fab's wants titles in Spain, which I must say would be best for him.
 
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