NR'd from a Medal - Thoughts?

[MACM85]

And a past captain benefited from the DQ!

Unless there is something we’re not being told. Bent AF doesn’t even begin to describe it.

What I have said in the posts is exactly what has happened. Nothing being hidden etc.

Obviously on Saturday he received a fair few heckles and comments about throwing the ball around the course and kicking it sideways to get a better lie etc. His main point in all of this is that if he sees an infringement of rules or another player does. Do we just wait until the scores are entered and everyone just gets DQ'd on a word of someone 130 yards away without proper evidence and discussions as per what you'd expect in a golf club.

 

[Bdill93]

And a past captain benefited from the DQ!

Unless there is something we’re not being told. Bent AF doesn’t even begin to describe it.

In abundance

 

[Deleted member 30522]

We decided not to say anything unless you won or came 2nd.

Wow. So it's only cheating if you win?

If you insist that you didn’t do this then I apologise.
I am and no one else has called you a cheat but I saw what I saw.

Sorry not sorry

 

[Backsticks]

Wow. So it's only cheating if you win?

Sorry not sorry

Sort of. I do go that way. If someone is breaking a rule, its not really worth the grief of correcting some people. If they have a good or contending score, I would, to protect other contenders. But if the cheaters score is rubbish anyway, and a penalty will only mean them finishing 80th and not 60th, I let it slide and get on with my own game.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Sort of. I do go that way. If someone is breaking a rule, its not really worth the grief of correcting some people. If they have a good or contending score, I would, to protect other contenders. But if the cheaters score is rubbish anyway, and a penalty will only mean them finishing 80th and not 60th, I let it slide and get on with my own game.

I get that, but this guy was on the committee. What if next time the "cheat" wins and nobody was watching from 130yds away?

 

[DanFST]

Reeks to me.
I can take the odd "bandit" jibe, but I'd be livid if someone accused me of cheating.

 

[Bdill93]

I get that, but this guy was on the committee. What if next time the "cheat" wins and nobody was watching from 130yds away?

What if the guy on the committee really hated this bloke and made it up?

Why does it being a committee member make a difference one bit? Biggest cheat at my club is the comp sec and we all know it

 

[Orikoru]

Thought I would post a little update in regards to this. The committee had their meeting Saturday and the following was sent to the player in question that afternoon via email

It is sent in response to your emailed letter of complaint sent to the Committee on 9th April 2023.

The Committee discussed your complaint today; before you had finished your competition round. The re-timing of your tee slot meant that we were in the middle of the meeting when you became available and you left before it had finished. However, the Committee decided that it had sufficient evidence and information from your own email and the report of the events on the day in question to not require further input from you in person. In this regard, please note that your email of 9th April to the Committee forms part of the documentation for the Committee consideration of your complaint whereas the email exchanges between you and comittee member X are treated as personal and are not part of the documentation (but the Committee were made aware of their content).

In response to your complaint, the Committee has agreed the following.
1. The process adopted by the Committee on the day in question was not correct in some respects. The Committee regrets this; accepts some of your criticism of the process and will endeavour to adopt a fully correct process in future.
2. The Committee does not accept your contentions concerning the validity of the decision to impose a penalty. For example, any action of moving a ball in the position you were in, on the 9th hole, can readily be seen from the 12th tee. The Committee saw no reason to change the ruling of disqualification before the competition closure on the day.
3. The reason for disqualification will be recorded in the meeting Minutes as ‘card infringement’ and persons’ names will not be recorded as there is no sanction applied to you for future HMGC competitions or matches.

There is no allowance in the HMGC constitution for an appeal to this decision.

This decision clearly will not be what you hoped for in view of your written denial of the infringement. However, the Committee hopes that you will accept it and continue to enjoy your golf in HMGC competitions


They didn't call me in to ask my view point nor did they ask the individual in question. The funny thing is that the chap who was NR'd last week won Div 1 with 41 points this past weekend!

If he really, honestly didn't move the ball then I'd be absolutely fuming if I was him, I'd ignore the 'no allowance for appeal' nonsense and never let it rest until they reversed the decision. I don't even know what action you can take but I'd be incensed. I'd also be concerned that accepting that decision without a fight is seen by others as an admission of having cheated. I think it's insane that they've actually upheld the decision based on the word of one person who was over 100 yards away.

Sorry I can't recall from all the posts here, but you absolutely saw that he didn't move the ball, correct? Have you reached out and contacted the committee to state this?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

What if the guy on the committee really hated this bloke and made it up?

Why does it being a committee member make a difference one bit? Biggest cheat at my club is the comp sec and we all know it

Committee members and long standing members must be respected no matter what. To even think about questioning their authority or integrity is nothing short of disrespectful

 

[MACM85]

If he really, honestly didn't move the ball then I'd be absolutely fuming if I was him, I'd ignore the 'no allowance for appeal' nonsense and never let it rest until they reversed the decision. I don't even know what action you can take but I'd be incensed. I'd also be concerned that accepting that decision without a fight is seen by others as an admission of having cheated. I think it's insane that they've actually upheld the decision based on the word of one person who was over 100 yards away.

Sorry I can't recall from all the posts here, but you absolutely saw that he didn't move the ball, correct? Have you reached out and contacted the committee to state this?

I was stood 10 yards away in the fairway while waiting for the guy behind to play then for him to play next. At no point did I see a movement of ball.

I tried to speak to the secretary on the committee and was told it was being discussed in house and if required to give my side of events I would be asked to attend the meeting.

I was not asked to attend or give an account of my viewpoint of the incident. The funny thing is the man in question after winning the comp on the weekend made a point of saying he will enjoy the win while he waits for some bullcrap NR accusation to be thrown at him that afternoon in the bar in front of everyone

 

[Imurg]

I was stood 10 yards away in the fairway while waiting for the guy behind to play then for him to play next. At no point did I see a movement of ball.

I tried to speak to the secretary on the committee and was told it was being discussed in house and if required to give my side of events I would be asked to attend the meeting.

I was not asked to attend or give an account of my viewpoint of the incident. The funny thing is the man in question after winning the comp on the weekend made a point of saying he will enjoy the win while he waits for some bullcrap NR accusation to be thrown at him that afternoon in the bar in front of everyone

Got any other clubs nearby..?
If it was me I'd be doing 1mof 2 things..
Never playing a competition there again, just playing casual rounds or
Finding somewhere else to play.....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thought I would post a little update in regards to this. The committee had their meeting Saturday and the following was sent to the player in question that afternoon via email

It is sent in response to your emailed letter of complaint sent to the Committee on 9th April 2023.

The Committee discussed your complaint today; before you had finished your competition round. The re-timing of your tee slot meant that we were in the middle of the meeting when you became available and you left before it had finished. However, the Committee decided that it had sufficient evidence and information from your own email and the report of the events on the day in question to not require further input from you in person. In this regard, please note that your email of 9th April to the Committee forms part of the documentation for the Committee consideration of your complaint whereas the email exchanges between you and comittee member X are treated as personal and are not part of the documentation (but the Committee were made aware of their content).

In response to your complaint, the Committee has agreed the following.
1. The process adopted by the Committee on the day in question was not correct in some respects. The Committee regrets this; accepts some of your criticism of the process and will endeavour to adopt a fully correct process in future.
2. The Committee does not accept your contentions concerning the validity of the decision to impose a penalty. For example, any action of moving a ball in the position you were in, on the 9th hole, can readily be seen from the 12th tee. The Committee saw no reason to change the ruling of disqualification before the competition closure on the day.
3. The reason for disqualification will be recorded in the meeting Minutes as ‘card infringement’ and persons’ names will not be recorded as there is no sanction applied to you for future HMGC competitions or matches.

There is no allowance in the HMGC constitution for an appeal to this decision.

This decision clearly will not be what you hoped for in view of your written denial of the infringement. However, the Committee hopes that you will accept it and continue to enjoy your golf in HMGC competitions


They didn't call me in to ask my view point nor did they ask the individual in question. The funny thing is that the chap who was NR'd last week won Div 1 with 41 points this past weekend!

Your PP has a few options now


1. Go to county , tell the committee that you will be taking the case to county because it’s a Handicap Q comps which affects Handicaps , also tell them that it will include witness statements of what happened

2. leave the club


The HC/Comp committee appear to be stuck in the dark ages and no clue about any proper process


If it was me then I would be emailing the county and England Golf and include the committee

 

[IanM]

I'd add a third.

Ask for details of the club's legal counsel and insurance cover. Tell them that they can expect action for defamation in 14 days unless you receive a full apology.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I'd add a third.

Ask for details of the club's legal counsel and insurance cover. Tell them that they can expect action for defamation in 14 days unless you receive a full apology.

I like this option. Go nuclear straight away and work backwards from there.
No way would I just roll over and be shafted if I was innocent.

 

[IanM]

Depends on how much you want to stay!

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Yep, if it was me and I was adamant I'm innocent then I would instruct a solicitor to contact the club informing them you are taking legal action. Once you are accused of cheating it never goes away and leaving the club won't help because other clubs will get to hear about it on the grapevine.

 

[chrisd]

If you watched the player and are adamant that he didn't move the ball I think you should ask for a "proper" hearing where the player, you, and any others in your group are allowed to attend and give your, and their, story of the events. It isn't good enough to rubbish a players integrity without a full and proper hearing. Generally where it's one sides story against another I believe that the Club normally falls to the side of the player if there is reasonable doubt which seems very much the case here

 

[NearHull]

Check your County Golf Union website for appeal information, if like our County Organisation they are switched on, there will be well written procedure to follow.

 

[IJames]

Check your County Golf Union website for appeal information, if like our County Organisation they are switched on, there will be well written procedure to follow.

This! It will be a perpetual stain otherwise - rumours will always leak!

 

[Jason.H]

If you watched the player and are adamant that he didn't move the ball I think you should ask for a "proper" hearing where the player, you, and any others in your group are allowed to attend and give your, and their, story of the events. It isn't good enough to rubbish a players integrity without a full and proper hearing. Generally where it's one sides story against another I believe that the Club normally falls to the side of the player if there is reasonable doubt which seems very much the case here

Is it even possible to watch all your playing partners all the time whilst working out your own shot to play? Only the player in question knows exactly what happened in this case. I,d be surprised if a committee member called this out just so a former captain could win a bit of shop credit