Not again...

[Region3]

Here's one more example...snooker.. (putting myself on the line here Gary!!)

When someone plays a deep screw backspin shot in snooker they feather the ball with the cue tip practically on the cloth.,, if you were following instruction they would tell you to do so.. if you did, and executed the shot perfectly as per instruction, you'd probably just chip the ball off the table (bit like the bad information for hitting a fade).

What actually happens is the cue impacts the ball just below the equator.. nowhere near the bottom of the ball..

here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnc64VJoQd4 and a screen shot of the cue at impact....

View attachment 604


It kind of highlights the difference between feel and real, when it comes to instruction it's crucial to know the REAL part even though it's sometimes the FEEL part that gets something to work.

Yay!... something I know about at last!

To me this actually proves my theory above where I mentioned friction.

You can actually hit very low on the cue ball without chipping it off the table provided that you push the cue through straight and not scoop at it (which a lot of people do).

With chalk on the tip it's fine, with no chalk you're chipping the white all day long, ie. no friction.

Playing with extreme sidespin you'd obviously hit the white very wide of centre. Probably about 3/4 of the way from the centre to the edge of the ball. The cue ball will start off fractionally the opposite way but not a lot again providing that the tip has chalk and the cue goes through straight.
The golf analogy direction would be 95% swing path and 5% face angle, and that's a conservative guess imo.

It also shows another example between feel and real. Lots of people say "I can't get any backspin". As long as they're hitting it hard enough so that the spin hasn't worn off before impact, it's always because they're not hitting below centre, no matter how much they protest that they are.

 

[JustOne]

I knew you would question that slow mo Gary

In reality it's not about friction it's about the directional force.. the ball will still start according to the impact position (at a tangent in the opposite direction) (hit it with a VERY glancing blow at 9 o'clock on the left side and it will start at 3 o'clock to the right) but there is not much direct impact force so it appears to not go very far... the spin then takes over.. in a vacuum where spin (friction) would not be present the ball would just go straight right.

 

[In_The_Rough]

I never aim left and open the clubface in bunkers unless the sand is very fine and dry,this is purely to put more bounce on the club and stop it from digging in.For most bunker shots at my home course i stand square and aim the club at the hole.

Me too. I got this tip from Gary Smith. Linear method I think it is called.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Is there any truth to the rumour Tiger is crying to himself in a dark corner somewhere working out how on earth he's going to get all of these debates on ball flight into 500 words for the first issue. Can't we go back to black gloves and rubber tees tied with string?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Me too. I got this tip from Gary Smith. Linear method I think it is called.

Its what I've been using and much more effective than the old fashioned method especially for a short game disaster zone like me

 

[In_The_Rough]

Its what I've been using and much more effective than the old fashioned method especially for a short game disaster zone like me

It is my Bunker play has improved beyond all expectations. I used to leave no end in the sand by opening stance and swinging along stance line. I do not use the linear method for Chipping though. My short game is pretty decent now. It is my swing that is my real problem and has been from day one.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

OK, so I've updated Tappers on the Topic and he is on the case. I've explained the issue and pointed him to some of the forum threads on the topic and he is going to hopefully get a response from one of GMs top 25 pro's, who he will be with in Abu Dhabi, and is hoping to post his reply on here later this week.

 

[SocketRocket]

OK, so I've updated Tappers on the Topic and he is on the case. I've explained the issue and pointed him to some of the forum threads on the topic and he is going to hopefully get a response from one of GMs top 25 pro's, who he will be with in Abu Dhabi, and is hoping to post his reply on here later this week.

Thats great.

 

[JustOne]

Well done Hawkeye.. can you imagine what the consequences of your actions might be if GM only printed stuff that followed the correct ball flight laws!!! ..............You'd be mentioned alongside Hogan!!!

 

[Mungoscorner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0wPnLYNy4

 

[SocketRocket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0wPnLYNy4

Not helping his game much, is it.

 

[Region3]

I knew you would question that slow mo Gary

In reality it's not about friction it's about the directional force.. the ball will still start according to the impact position (at a tangent in the opposite direction) (hit it with a VERY glancing blow at 9 o'clock on the left side and it will start at 3 o'clock to the right) but there is not much direct impact force so it appears to not go very far... the spin then takes over.. in a vacuum where spin (friction) would not be present the ball would just go straight right.

I didn't watch the slo-mo. Quite a few players cue up in a different position to where they hit, and I know you're right that even a few mm below centre (if hit hard enough) will produce backspin. Even centre ball on a pool table will get a little screwback. Jimmy White always used to (not seen him for a while to know if it's still true) cue up at the bottom of the ball, even if he were going to hit the cue ball at the top.

On your clockface, the furthest right I would hit the ball with sidespin would be about 4 o'clock. The cue ball doesn't shoot off at 10 o'clock though, it's about 11:58. I just assumed it was friction because without the chalk it would go off in the opposite direction (roughly) to the strike.

 

[Region3]

I can feel a 1000fps experiment coming!

 

[JustOne]

It IS friction both with the cue and the cloth which affect the ball straight away but the impact itself would produce the same 'ball flight laws' as any other.. if that makes sense.. it's also the same when 2 planets collide and explains why toast always drops jam side down ...OK, just kidding about the toast

 

[Region3]

I always thought toast lands jam side down because it's the heavier side, and that's why they make 'light' butter