Not again...

[bobmac]

Bob, do you get as frustrated as others when people basically representing your profession teach/write as per the old rules?

As I haven't seen the magazine, I don't know what was said and by whom so cant really comment.

However, it wasn't until I came across an article on the internet when I realised how many people are still teaching the old method.
Hence my post here

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...beflippinlievable.&highlight=ball+flight+laws

Also, do you have a theory as to why? Refusal to change, not aware, etc?

I really dont know why.
Maybe they were taught the old laws and just don't know they have changed.

 

[Monty_Brown]

As I haven't seen the magazine, I don't know what was said and by whom so cant really comment.

However, it wasn't until I came across an article on the internet when I realised how many people are still teaching the old method.
Hence my post here

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...beflippinlievable.&highlight=ball+flight+laws



I really dont know why.
Maybe they were taught the old laws and just don't know they have changed.

Bob I hope you take comfort from the fact that you have enlightened hundreds of golfers about the correct laws through your posts on this forum. :thup: You are more than doing your bit.

I will write to Mike H demanding they extend their feature to the Top 26 coaches in the UK.

 

[bobmac]

Bob I hope you take comfort from the fact that you have enlightened hundreds of golfers about the correct laws through your posts on this forum. :thup: You are more than doing your bit.

I will write to Mike H demanding they extend their feature to the Top 26 coaches in the UK.

He's probably in receptive mood right now as he's currently flying to Orlando for the golf show and he has been upgraded.

 

[Scottjd1]

Monty demonstrated at a clinic a simpler way by taking a weaker or stronger grip at address and swinging normally and letting the change of grip do the work.

This is what my pro is encouraging me to do and i guess it just sjhows there are multiple ways to get the desired outcome, to be honest it doesnt always work but i feel I have a lot more control over the ball and can often get the intended flight. As he says, no one gets it right 100% of the time.

 

[TheJezster]

Scuse my ignorance. What are the ball flight laws then and how have they changed?

 

[Tommo21]

Scuse my ignorance. What are the ball flight laws then and how have they changed?

You dont want to know.....trust me.

 

[bobmac]

Scuse my ignorance. What are the ball flight laws then and how have they changed?

It's quite simple really.
In the olden days, golf teachers thought the ball started its flight roughly in the direction of the swing path. If the club face was pointing left or right of that path, the ball would then spin in the direction the clubface was pointing (Left picture)

We now know the ball starts roughly in the same direction as the club face and it's the swingpath that makes the ball spin left or right.
Sadly, some teachers are still using the old laws.

Will this help?

The ball starts as per the right hand picture red arrow and the path of the swing imparts side spin

 

[Mungoscorner]

Anybody thats ever played football should understand how the angle of attack is what influences ball flight.Another thing is that unless the setup (ball position,grip,etc) is somewhere near correct,there is no way on earth a fade or draw can be guaranteed by simply aiming our feet one way and clubface another.
Considering most of us can't even hit the ball straight with any degree of regularity,why are people getting so wound up about hitting a fade or draw

 

[USER1999]

The amazing bit is why any one ever thought the old laws would work. It must have been exceptionally stupid thinking to have arrived at the old laws.

If you hold a tennis racket with the strings horizontal, and then rotate it 20 degrees, swing it horizontally at a tennis ball, no one in their right mind is going to think the ball will do anything other than shoot up into the air (following the face). There is no way you would think the ball would start off near enough horizontal (on the path). Why would golf have been different?

 

[JustOne]

The old laws (PGA teaching) stated that the clubface WAS responsible for the starting direction and the swingpath second... they just didn't say buy how much... they probably thought it was 50-50 instead of 85-15,...and then from 50-50 it just crept in the direction of the swingpath bit by bit.. like chinese whispers you'd imagine.

 

[Region3]

It doesn't hold true with football though. I don't know why but I'd guess it's because there's more friction between the boot and ball than the club and a golf ball.

If you were going to take an inswinging corner with the inside of your right foot you wouldn't have your foot at right angles to the penalty spot when you hit it.
Just thinking about it I think the surface you're hitting the ball with (inside of right foot) would be pointing about 10° behind the goal and swinging towards the edge of the 18yd box, so that would be about 50/50 between the 2 factors.

 

[JustOne]

It doesn't hold true with football though.

I think it probably does Gary as the point of impact is higher on the foot than where the studs are. Collisions of objects are governed by physics, so I'd bet my bad knee that it's similar


Maybe that's why the England football team haven't gotten any better in the last 20yrs either!!!

 

[JustOne]

Here's one more example...snooker.. (putting myself on the line here Gary!!)

When someone plays a deep screw backspin shot in snooker they feather the ball with the cue tip practically on the cloth.,, if you were following instruction they would tell you to do so.. if you did, and executed the shot perfectly as per instruction, you'd probably just chip the ball off the table (bit like the bad information for hitting a fade).

What actually happens is the cue impacts the ball just below the equator.. nowhere near the bottom of the ball..

here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnc64VJoQd4 and a screen shot of the cue at impact....




It kind of highlights the difference between feel and real, when it comes to instruction it's crucial to know the REAL part even though it's sometimes the FEEL part that gets something to work.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm the shy retiring type................

Glad someone (Hawkeye) finds it as equally frustrating as I do, ....that makes about 2 of us in total

Three

 

[SocketRocket]

They have always said that when plaing a greenside bunker shot open the face, point the leading edge at the flag then swing left of the clubface. The ball takes off in the direction of the clubface.

Why would they think its different out of the sand? Magic!!

 

[Monty_Brown]

They have always said that when plaing a greenside bunker shot open the face, point the leading edge at the flag then swing left of the clubface. The ball takes off in the direction of the clubface.

Why would they think its different out of the sand? Magic!!

Brian, on that issue, with the 85/15 split between clubface/swingpath affecting initial direction, is it correct to still open the face a little relative to the intended target?

 

[DCB]

Just remember Scotty's favourite saying

" ye cannae change the laws of physics Captain"

 

[SocketRocket]

Brian, on that issue, with the 85/15 split between clubface/swingpath affecting initial direction, is it correct to still open the face a little relative to the intended target?

You dont need to open it in that case. With the sand wedge its only to expose the bounce to the sand.

Interestingly, the more loft on the clubface the less the ball will have sidespin when there is a difference between the clubface direction and the swingpath. This is due to the steeper 'D' plane created with high loft. Most will understand that its harder to shape a ball with a wedge.

 

[JustOne]

The extreme manifestation is the green side bunker shot or a shortish lob/sand iron shot. We are taught to take a wide stance and square the face to the target; in this case the hole and assuming a dead flat green. What happens? The ball flies straight towards the hole but surprise surprise it rolls left to right and misses. The club face has to be lined up to the left of the hole and aimed more or less if the green slopes left to right or the other way.
The same thing happens with the fairway irons/hybrids/woods on a downward strike except the spin on the green shot translates into a fade in the air with the irons etc.
I won't mention the draw, it's late my head hurts.
Justone. Is that a load of rubbish?

There is a lot less spin out of the sand (as Brian just said) as the clubface doesn't touch the ball.. unless you catch it clean of course. So the ball WILL have a little sidespin (due to the very acute angle) and some backspin, but not much of either, even the pro's let the ball land soft and roll out... you can pretty much aim at the flag with your laid open clubface...a fraction left if you want to get technical

 

[Mungoscorner]

I never aim left and open the clubface in bunkers unless the sand is very fine and dry,this is purely to put more bounce on the club and stop it from digging in.For most bunker shots at my home course i stand square and aim the club at the hole.