Non-Qualifier?

[Imurg]

May Stableford today and due to a problem with a combination of broken mowers and lots of rain we had "pick'n'place" on the fairways AND 1st cut of rough.....:mmm:

Am I right in assuming this can't be a qualifier? Tees and greens were normal....

 

[DCB]

unless they notified the local authority/county and got dispensation for it then you're probably right.

 

[fundy]

pretty sure the end April cut off for winter rules this yr had been extended to end May (albeit I think the club was still supposed to notify the union). So I think it would be OK as a qualifier albeit I don't know what impact including the first cut of rough has on it too. If its anything like ours it will just be processed as non-qual I expect

Who shot a good score then? You back to cat 1? Or has Fragger got a big cut due?

 

[Imurg]

Well I took him by 4 points but there's no cut due anytime soon!
Let's put it that way - chipped in twice though!

 

[rosecott]

Has to be close-mown areas only.

 

[upsidedown]

Ours come off on June 1st

 

[upsidedown]

Ours come off on June 1st

Incidentally how many use the six inches on the green under winter rules? Never have done this but saw it happen the other day and was informed by qualified ref that as 'closey mown ' perfectly fine on our course.

 

[louise_a]

Although last year we got an extension well into May, this year we were off winter rules before the end of March.

 

[rulefan]

May Stableford today and due to a problem with a combination of broken mowers and lots of rain we had "pick'n'place" on the fairways AND 1st cut of rough.....:mmm:

Am I right in assuming this can't be a qualifier? Tees and greens were normal....

You are right. Preferred Lies are not permitted on the 1st cut.

CONGU Clause 15.3
It is emphasised that preferred lies must apply only when a Local Rule has been made and published
in accordance with Appendix ,Part B, 4c of the Rules of Golf as follows:
“A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green may be lifted without penalty and cleaned.
Before lifting the ball,the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on
a spot within 6 inches [50mm] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not
in a hazard and not on a putting green.

 

[rulefan]

Incidentally how many use the six inches on the green under winter rules? Never have done this but saw it happen the other day and was informed by qualified ref that as 'closey mown ' perfectly fine on our course.

That is not permitted. See the clause I quoted in the reply above. The Putting Green is not Through the Green.

Through The Green
Through the Green is the whole area of the Course except:
a. The Teeing Ground and the Putting Green of the hole being played; and
b. All Hazards on the Course

Perhaps your 'qualified' ref need to re-qualify.

 

[upsidedown]

Which is why I was somewhat surprised when I saw a player doing it ( he did ask his partner if he was allowed to do it )

As a ' local rule ' could it be applied as such to just our course? The ref in question recently qualified with exceptionally high marks

That is not permitted. See the clause I quoted in the reply above. The Putting Green is not Through the Green.

Through The Green
Through the Green is the whole area of the Course except:
a. The Teeing Ground and the Putting Green of the hole being played; and
b. All Hazards on the Course

Perhaps your 'qualified' ref need to re-qualify.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

pretty sure the end April cut off for winter rules this yr had been extended to end May (albeit I think the club was still supposed to notify the union). So I think it would be OK as a qualifier albeit I don't know what impact including the first cut of rough has on it too. If its anything like ours it will just be processed as non-qual I expect

Who shot a good score then? You back to cat 1? Or has Fragger got a big cut due?

It was indeed extended into May and clubs had to tell the local union they were doing it. Usually after april you have to request permission to extend

 

[duncan mackie]

Which is why I was somewhat surprised when I saw a player doing it ( he did ask his partner if he was allowed to do it )

As a ' local rule ' could it be applied as such to just our course? The ref in question recently qualified with exceptionally high marks

I suspect you are in a better position to answer the question as to whether you have such a LR in place!

For CONGU you would have to get specific permission to run Q comps with it in place.

For the rules, it's hard to envisage a green that would meet the general conditions appropriate to the introduction of preferred lies; "Adverse conditions, including the poor condition of the course or the existence of mud, are sometimes so general, particularly during winter months, that the Committee may decide to grant relief by temporary Local Rule either to protect the course or to promote fair and pleasant play. The Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as the conditions warrant."

However, you would have to apply to the R&A to get permission for such a LR as it's not a specimen one; and the questions that would be asked involve -
"player's can already clean the ball so why do you want to let them move it?"

 

[upsidedown]

At one of my previous clubs we had a LR in place for when the greens had been cored and you could take relief from a 'cored hole' till they had grown over then it was removed .

 

[duncan mackie]

At one of my previous clubs we had a LR in place for when the greens had been cored and you could take relief from a 'cored hole' till they had grown over then it was removed .

that's a standard LR, "aeration holes"

 

[Imurg]

Word from Fragger indicates that they have put this through as a qualifier - more on this later

 

[bladeplayer]

that's a standard LR, "aeration holes"

Sorry for going off track,
Duncan am i correct in thinking this does have to be posted up (its not on the cards), & you cant assume it is in place if it was a local rule last year (or the old chestnut , "its always been the way here")

or could abnormal ground conditions cover it ?

Thanks

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry for going off track,
Duncan am i correct in thinking this does have to be posted up (its not on the cards), & you cant assume it is in place if it was a local rule last year (or the old chestnut , "its always been the way here")

or could abnormal ground conditions cover it ?

Thanks

whilst it's undoubtably a hole, made by the green keeper, the existence of a specific specimen LR to cover it suggests that AGC isn't contemplated to cover them

as with all LRs it needs to be communicated to be active either on the scorecard or on a board (or both) - so, as you say, it can't be assumed (for any reason!).

some clubs have moved this particular one from it's historic association with 'winter rules' to being in play all year and printed on the card. the logic is solid - if there are areation holes it should be in play, if there aren't then it doesn't matter - but the weakness in this comes when a player claims relief from an ancient almost closed up aeration hole to avoid a spike mark (and the ensuing discussion about why he only needs 6mm to be clear of the hole! On balance it's not a bad approach though.

 

[bladeplayer]

whilst it's undoubtably a hole, made by the green keeper, the existence of a specific specimen LR to cover it suggests that AGC isn't contemplated to cover them

as with all LRs it needs to be communicated to be active either on the scorecard or on a board (or both) - so, as you say, it can't be assumed (for any reason!).

some clubs have moved this particular one from it's historic association with 'winter rules' to being in play all year and printed on the card. the logic is solid - if there are areation holes it should be in play, if there aren't then it doesn't matter - but the weakness in this comes when a player claims relief from an ancient almost closed up aeration hole to avoid a spike mark (and the ensuing discussion about why he only needs 6mm to be clear of the hole! On balance it's not a bad approach though.

Thank you :thup:

 

[MashieNiblick]

whilst it's undoubtably a hole, made by the green keeper, the existence of a specific specimen LR to cover it suggests that AGC isn't contemplated to cover them

And to support that, Decision 25/15 Aeration Holes, specifically states they are not within the meaning of the term "hole made by a greenkeeper" in the definition of GUR.