New lockdown will courses close?

[Ethan]

Not a bad plan though is it? No one has any cash after a Christmas splurge and January and February are the coldest two months and the height of the flu season so shutting up like first lockdown (so everything bar food shops, chemists etc) and keeping people as far apart as possible and see how the land lies in March

Well, I am not sure the public understand the price they may pay for that family get together. Jan and Feb may be economically quiet but hospital pressures are often very high then, and flu is peaking, so the pressures on hospitals may be extreme then. I think it is unwise to bring too many family members around and we will do the minimum shopping for Christmas.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well, I am not sure the public understand the price they may pay for that family get together. Jan and Feb may be economically quiet but hospital pressures are often very high then, and flu is peaking, so the pressures on hospitals may be extreme then. I think it is unwise to bring too many family members around and we will do the minimum shopping for Christmas.

I agree totally but dependant on what Johnson says post lockdown a lot of families are going to make Christmas a big hurrah which I think inevitably will lead to the R number going up again. I accept hospitals are peaking with flu so by trying to keep people as separate as possible so imposing a major lockdown would seem to be the only option available. We have already agreed with the in-laws we are doing separate Christmas day although HID will take the father in law some Christmas dinner to heat up (M-I-L doesn't eat and fed via a peg so not point him paying for a turkey and cooking for one)

 

[IanM]

Comparison of what is and isn't allowed always seems to defy logic...regardless of whether its Boris, or one of the regional folk saying so. Especially when its your activity stopped.

We've had it over here for weeks in one form or another.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just back 7pm from walk to our local town centre supermarket for a few bits and pieces. Town virtually empty, no queue at supermarket and very quiet inside - and everyone wearing a mask and keeping their distance.

 

[Diamond]

There are enough imbeciles and morons in this country to keep this cycle going until we get a vaccine that is proven to work and a process in place where everyone is vaccinated.

 

[Tiger man]

Every single persons situation and priorities will be different - it’s a no win situation that is completely new for the country and no matter what rules or guidelines they put in or don’t put in place then someone somewhere will not be happy as it won’t suit their situation or circumstances.

There is no book written on how this all works and in the same way all golfers become greenkeepers everyone now becomes experts on how to handle a pandemic ( generic comment )

How can they provide something that will suit everyone - should they single out golfers to carry on whilst the tennis players complain , and then other outdoor sports start to ask the same question - so do they just let everyone carry on as before - there is no right answer.

People have used the mental health element for sport to continue - Xmas is very important to a lot of people as well in regards mental health , just as seeing their families is. It’s frustrating for us all - it’s lovely weather out there and It would have been a lovely day for a game of golf - but there will be other days ahead

Golf cannot be compared to any other sport other than fishing and exercise such as running, cycling etc for being able to safely isolate. Tennis is played using the same ball for starters. I would totally support the decision if it was part of a tight lockdown but from what I have seen in shops and parks etc this is just a lockdown lite and people are not taking it as seriously as the first one.

 

[Hercules]

We listened to Gupta's views. By the way, she is a theoretical epidemiologist, which is an important distinction. She wrote a paper in March suggesting that 68% of the population was immune, and that the infection fatality rate was around 1 in 10,000. This work has been comprehensively trashed and disproven, and so nobody is seriously listening to her now. She is an advocate of the Swedish approach, and expressed that view in a well known statement sponsored by right wing American libertarians. Sweden has had a death rate 5-10x that of immediate neighbours, and no better economic or mental health outcomes.

Our leaders have used Whitty and Vallance as cover at times, and ignored them at other times. If you want to listen to eminent epidemiologists, try the WHO. We should have listened better to their advice from the start.

Try the WHO! Dr Who would have more sense than that bunch. Gupta's views have not been trashed or disproven by anyone.
Could not believe the numbers out walking today - would have been further apart on the links!

 

[Ethan]

Try the WHO! Dr Who would have more sense than that bunch. Gupta's views have not been trashed or disproven by anyone.
Could not believe the numbers out walking today - would have been further apart on the links!

The WHO have hands on experience in dealing with pandemics. They recommended swift lockdown and lots of testing, both basic public health. They were ignored. Dr Who's advice is not known. She has been self-isolating back on Gallifrey during the pandemic.

Gupta's views have been trashed plenty. Maybe not in the stuff you read, but in reputable and scientific journals. Her March paper has been discredited as, to use the technical term, crap, and subsequent papers have been declined for publication. She has complained publicly about the conspiracy against her. The Swedish model has also been shown to have worse outcomes than Norway and Finland. In May she said the pandemic had largely finished in the UK. Oops.

She was willing to act as a shill for the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian group sponsored by right wing dark money who wrote the Great Barrington Declaration. That makes her disreputable and untrustworthy in my book.

 

[Hercules]

The WHO have hands on experience in dealing with pandemics. They recommended swift lockdown and lots of testing, both basic public health. They were ignored. Dr Who's advice is not known. She has been self-isolating back on Gallifrey during the pandemic.

Gupta's views have been trashed plenty. Maybe not in the stuff you read, but in reputable and scientific journals. Her March paper has been discredited as, to use the technical term, crap, and subsequent papers have been declined for publication. She has complained publicly about the conspiracy against her. The Swedish model has also been shown to have worse outcomes than Norway and Finland. In May she said the pandemic had largely finished in the UK. Oops.

She was willing to act as a shill for the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian group sponsored by right wing dark money who wrote the Great Barrington Declaration. That makes her disreputable and untrustworthy in my book.

Not in my book. Along with Henegan, Sikora and Yeadon

 

[Ethan]

Not in my book. Along with Henegan, Sikora and Yeadon

Great. You should try reading some better books.

If you actually believe what she says, why don't you explain to me why she is right about the 68%, and also explain how a herd immunity stragey could be controlled so as not to crash the NHS. If you are unable to do those, one must presume you don't really get it.

 

[Hercules]

Great. You should try reading some better books.

If you actually believe what she says, why don't you explain to me why she is right about the 68%, and also explain how a herd immunity stragey could be controlled so as not to crash the NHS. If you are unable to do those, one must presume you don't really get it.

If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year

 

[BiMGuy]

If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year

So let's pile more pressure on. Great idea.

You seem to have picked a side and will only believe the people who write things that support this.

The way out of this is a reliable, cheap quick test and effective treatments. Along with people taking some personal responsibility and taking sensible precautions.

 

[Ethan]

If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year

I understand herd immunity, thanks. You don't. The human race has coped with viruses by having millions die. Maybe you are in favour of the survival of the fittest approach? Flu devastated the world post WW1, and further pandemics have occurred since. However, Covid is not flu and has a case fatality rate approx 10x greater. Over the century, people have gathered degrees of immunity to some strains of flu, and this provides degrees of protection supplemented by specific vaccinations to the most vulnerable whose base immunity is not so strong.

So I will give you vaccination. It has had a major effect on polio, diphtheria, tetanus, rabies, smallpox, flu, measles, mumps, rubella, some forms of meningitis, to a lesser extent TB, and so on. Your opinion on vaccination is irrelevant - it is a critical public health measure, and that is a fact.

The NHS is under pressure already, it always is in winter, so you have answered your own question - there is little reserve. If you have a clever plan to control the flow of sacrificial victims into the NHS, lets hear it. Most sensible people would consider that rather hard to do, and the NHS would quickly become overwhelmed, and then all the cancer patients and others to whom you pay lip service would differ too. And the ethics of herd immunity are highly problematic.

A lot of lockdown sceptics claim to care about other patients in the NHS, but I reckon they don't really care at all and just use that as an excuse to cover what they really want, to be able to go to the pub, shops, hang out with friends, go to football. That would be a very callous and cynical position, not that any of them would admit to it.

 

[Hercules]

I understand herd immunity, thanks. You don't. The human race has coped with viruses by having millions die. Maybe you are in favour of the survival of the fittest approach? Flu devastated the world post WW1, and further pandemics have occurred since. However, Covid is not flu and has a case fatality rate approx 10x greater. Over the century, people have gathered degrees of immunity to some strains of flu, and this provides degrees of protection supplemented by specific vaccinations to the most vulnerable whose base immunity is not so strong.

So I will give you vaccination. It has had a major effect on polio, diphtheria, tetanus, rabies, smallpox, flu, measles, mumps, rubella, some forms of meningitis, to a lesser extent TB, and so on. Your opinion on vaccination is irrelevant - it is a critical public health measure, and that is a fact.

The NHS is under pressure already, it always is in winter, so you have answered your own question - there is little reserve. If you have a clever plan to control the flow of sacrificial victims into the NHS, lets hear it. Most sensible people would consider that rather hard to do, and the NHS would quickly become overwhelmed, and then all the cancer patients and others to whom you pay lip service would differ too. And the ethics of herd immunity are highly problematic.

A lot of lockdown sceptics claim to care about other patients in the NHS, but I reckon they don't really care at all and just use that as an excuse to cover what they really want, to be able to go to the pub, shops, hang out with friends, go to football. That would be a very callous and cynical position, not that any of them would admit to it.

So someone else's opinion is irrelevant according to you. You must be a very important person.
Contrary to what you allege I am not interested in going to the pub etc. I would just like some honesty from people regarding the current situation instead of numbers being invented to support it.(10x fatality rate!). Perhaps then we can all get back to playing golf and the other things we enjoy.

 

[Ethan]

So someone else's opinion is irrelevant according to you. You must be a very important person.
Contrary to what you allege I am not interested in going to the pub etc. I would just like some honesty from people regarding the current situation instead of numbers being invented to support it.(10x fatality rate!). Perhaps then we can all get back to playing golf and the other things we enjoy.

You really don't get it. Some things are not a matter of opinion - the Earth is not flat, gravity is real, bacon is the food of the Gods and vaccinations work. As a famous American politician said "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts". It would be equally irrelevant if you thought the Earth was flat - you possibly do. It isn't.

Funnily enough, for someone who seems keen on facts, you haven't provided a single solitary one, not even a half baked one. So, if you plan to respond by accusing me of making up numbers, then prove me wrong. You have not offered one shred of fact or evidence for anything you have said, so I will assume you are just full of hot air.

And I didn't allege that you wanted to just go to the pub, but I see it struck a nerve.

 

[larmen]

Golf courses are still closed and I am fine with that. My back is actually getting better and I give it a go again when they open in December

What I am wondering about is, we walked past a boathouse this lunch time and there seemed to have been some action. Boys in shorts being collected by parents in big cars. Turns out, boat house of the local private school.

Is rowing allowed while golf/tennis/football ... are not? Is it allowed because schools are open and it is a school activity?

 

[DanFST]

Golf courses are still closed and I am fine with that. My back is actually getting better and I give it a go again when they open in December

What I am wondering about is, we walked past a boathouse this lunch time and there seemed to have been some action. Boys in shorts being collected by parents in big cars. Turns out, boat house of the local private school.

Is rowing allowed while golf/tennis/football ... are not? Is it allowed because schools are open and it is a school activity?

Kids are playing sports as normal at school.

One of my friends teaches at a school with a golf course, plays every morning.

 

[robinthehood]

I took a few balls and club over the field today and hit a few shots. Was nice and I'm looking forward to December

 

[clubchamp98]

Kids are playing sports as normal at school.

One of my friends teaches at a school with a golf course, plays every morning.

If I played at my club later would that count as night school?

 

[yandabrown]

I see that the petition is set to be debated in the house on the 23rd November, I wonder if anything will change.