New Local Rules

[backwoodsman]

In response to both rulefan & ColinL

Yes but the LR guarantees me a (pretty reasonable?) lie on the edge of the fairway. Three off the tee or a provisional has nothing like that certainty - especially those who have higher handicaps.

And there are plenty of players (i play with a couple from time to time) who hit it miles but their weakness is they cant keep it on line. I can think of plenty of situations where the LR means they could be playing their 4th, on a nice lie say, 90 yards from the pin - as opposed to playing a third from the tee some 380 yards away.. One option is far less pressurised than the other

If the LR was in place, personally, I can't see that i would ever take a provisional again (except perhaps after a complete duff into the cabbage just in front of a tee). A "2 shot drop" that gives me the equivalent of a good, or even a conservative, provisional is a far better option than an as yet unplayed shot - which might be good, but equally, might end up in a bunker, under bush, in the rough etc etc.

I know you've both argued your views on this topic - l fear we are not going to agree. That's golf (& life?) I guess.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ps: not sure I've previously said, but its the bit about the ability to drop on the fairway that is the real bugbear for me. If it was drop within (a somehow defined) proximity of where it was lost or OOB, then I'd have far less issue with it. (Eg, lose it somewhere not nice, then drop & continue from somewhere not nice is possibly acceptable to me)

 

[User 99]

I don't quite get why you have such an issue with it, someone is going to run up a score on that particular hole, most likely a double, what's the problem when a net double if the highest score that effects your overall score. As for it making things easier, I don't recall the last time I ran up a double and felt it was easy.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ps: not sure I've previously said, but its the bit about the ability to drop on the fairway that is the real bugbear for me. If it was drop within (a somehow defined) proximity of where it was lost or OOB, then I'd have far less issue with it. (Eg, lose it somewhere not nice, then drop & continue from somewhere not nice is possibly acceptable to me)

Apart from the distance gain, the RoG already allow you to find your ball and then if you wish have another attempt at the shot under stroke and distance from a decent lie, for that option the game only imposes a one shot penalty.
In the new rule, yes you may get a decent lie but it’s at the cost of an extra penalty and possibly considerable distance.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I’m fully behind Congu on this - why should you be able to drop when the ball is lost or OB - if there is any doubt the simple method is then to play a provisional , the rule was a cop out for me. We have seen people put a provisional OB as well so they are off the tee for 5 - in this rule you get that cop.

It was the one rule that didn’t seem right and was a step to making the game easier - can’t sanitize the game too much

If social or society golf want to play it then they could anyway if they wish

Not so simple really as we move towards a situation where "every round counts". If a society chooses to make it's competition an "Acceptable Round" under WHS - which some will - then they have to play to the rules of golf - presumably including local rules. Thus if the OOB or lost ball LR isn't in use by the club it can't be used by a society presumably?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not so simple really as we move towards a situation where "every round counts". If a society chooses to make it's competition an "Acceptable Round" under WHS - which some will - then they have to play to the rules of golf - presumably including local rules. Thus if the OOB or lost ball LR isn't in use by the club it can't be used by a society presumably?

First - I will be amazed if many if any societies decide to make the round “qualifying” or whatever phrase people will use - it will remove the whole idea of social/society golf.

And the “every round” counts isn’t really true is it - it won’t be much different to what we have now excpect the HC is worked out a different way.

The LR/OOB rule can be used it just wont go towards any HC adjustments.

But then from what I have witnessed most don’t agree with the rule anyway.

All the nonsense could have been removed by making it a rule of golf and not a LR - if it’s that much of an issue then I’m sure it will benefit all levels of the game

 

[User 99]

But then from what I have witnessed most don’t agree with the rule anyway.

For what reason ?

 

[duncan mackie]

For what reason ?

#61 seems to cover the primary reason given, combined with a significant element of 'principle'.

 

[User 99]

There are a number of rules I don't agree with but like the rest of us, I just have to suck it up and get on with it. It seems the R&A/USGA are trying to modernise but some still wish to be stuck in the dark ages.

 

[rulefan]

Possibly they (the R&A/USGA) are taking the same approach they did with DMDs. Let's see how it goes and then make it substantive it it works out.

 

[duncan mackie]

Possibly they (the R&A/USGA) are taking the same approach they did with DMDs. Let's see how it goes and then make it substantive it it works out.

Unfortunately they risk the same fiasco associated with the introduction of the 'club handicap category' compromise...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I believe the introduction of the 2 shot penalty drop outside the bunker to be more contenious than the oob/lb rule.
Surprised CONGU don’t see that has having a bigger impact on scoring.
Difference being the bunker change is straight in as a RoG

 

[rulefan]

Of course many are missing the point the RBs make about speeding up play. The pros and elite competition entrants either have enough spectators to find the ball quickly or (elite amateurs in particular) will play an excellent provisional.
A poorly played provision (or provisionals) takes time. And once one bad provisional (lost or OOB) is played, groundhog day seems to arrive. The LR is no longer available.

 

[rulefan]

I believe the introduction of the 2 shot penalty drop outside the bunker to be more contenious than the oob/lb rule.
Surprised CONGU don’t see that has having a bigger impact on scoring.
Difference being the bunker change is straight in as a RoG

That was on the verge of being introduced in 2008 but was pulled at the last minute.

 

[jim8flog]

In response to both rulefan & ColinL

Yes but the LR guarantees me a (pretty reasonable?) lie on the edge of the fairway. Three off the tee or a provisional has nothing like that certainty - especially those who have higher handicaps.

And there are plenty of players (i play with a couple from time to time) who hit it miles but their weakness is they cant keep it on line. I can think of plenty of situations where the LR means they could be playing their 4th, on a nice lie say, 90 yards from the pin - as opposed to playing a third from the tee some 380 yards away.. One option is far less pressurised than the other

If the LR was in place, personally, I can't see that i would ever take a provisional again (except perhaps after a complete duff into the cabbage just in front of a tee). A "2 shot drop" that gives me the equivalent of a good, or even a conservative, provisional is a far better option than an as yet unplayed shot - which might be good, but equally, might end up in a bunker, under bush, in the rough etc etc.

I know you've both argued your views on this topic - l fear we are not going to agree. That's golf (& life?) I guess.

I think you have missed par3s off your list of where you would take a provisional/ 3 of the tee. Always a chance of a hole out with it.

 

[jim8flog]

I don't quite get why you have such an issue with it, someone is going to run up a score on that particular hole, most likely a double, what's the problem when a net double if the highest score that effects your overall score. As for it making things easier, I don't recall the last time I ran up a double and felt it was easy.

The biggest issue I have with it is the number of players who are likely to 'incorrectly' implement it eg walk 90 degrees from the spot and drop on the a fairway. There plenty of payers who do not correctly follow the existing rules because they cannot be bothered to read/learn them or treat it all as just a bit of fun even when playing comps. That was one of the objections put forward and agreed by all the members of the sub committee whose decision it was to not allow it's implementation as a LR.

The other main reason for not having it was because we could only have it on selected holes due to course layout and yet again we thought it would be a rule misapplied by players on holes where it would have not been allowed.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The biggest issue I have with it is the number of players who are likely to 'incorrectly' implement it eg walk 90 degrees from the spot and drop on the a fairway. There plenty of payers who do not correctly follow the existing rules because they cannot be bothered to read/learn them or treat it all as just a bit of fun even when playing comps. That was one of the objections put forward and agreed by all the members of the sub committee whose decision it was to not allow it's implementation as a LR.

The other main reason for not having it was because we could only have it on selected holes due to course layout and yet again we thought it would be a rule misapplied by players on holes where it would have not been allowed.

So it’s not about the rule itself, it’s about your members and their failures.

 

[User 99]

The biggest issue I have with it is the number of players who are likely to 'incorrectly' implement it eg walk 90 degrees from the spot and drop on the a fairway. There plenty of payers who do not correctly follow the existing rules because they cannot be bothered to read/learn them or treat it all as just a bit of fun even when playing comps. That was one of the objections put forward and agreed by all the members of the sub committee whose decision it was to not allow it's implementation as a LR.

The other main reason for not having it was because we could only have it on selected holes due to course layout and yet again we thought it would be a rule misapplied by players on holes where it would have not been allowed.

I absolutely agree with you, it was my very first thought when I read about It, it's quite extraordinary the amount of people who play the game have a very little grasp of the rules.

 

[Colin L]

I've just been informed by Scottish Golf that the CONGU guidance to clubs has now been ratified and will be issued to clubs early next week.

 

[jim8flog]

So it’s not about the rule itself, it’s about your members and their failures.

Not just our members. I play an very reasonable amount of away golf in opens and matches and sadly the lack of knowledge about the rules is fairly widespread in my experience.

I have even had it said to me in one Open "We are not taking this seriously are we? Its just a bit of fun" having just told one guy he had broken a rule after being told not to do what he did.