New 4 bbb handicap rules

[KenL]

I am not in favour. If two partners are low handicap and play two high handicappers then it will be very difficult to get near them.

6 hcp players have to give 18 hcp players 11 strokes. There is a decent likelihood that one of the 18s will par any particular hole meaning that a birdie is required for a half.

Previously they would have received 9 shots, quite a difference.

I am interested in the data they used to decide that this change was necessary.

 

[Ross61]

I am not in favour. If two partners are low handicap and play two high handicappers then it will be very difficult to get near them.

6 hcp players have to give 18 hcp players 11 strokes. There is a decent likelihood that one of the 18s will par any particular hole meaning that a birdie is required for a half.

Previously they would have received 9 shots, quite a difference.

I am interested in the data they used to decide that this change was necessary.

Are you you saying a 6 handicapper isn't capable of scoring a birdie at any one hole, leaving the high handicapper needing a par to halve it?

A 24 handicapper for instance will probably par on average 2-3 holes per round.
A 6 handicapper is likely to score the same ratio of birdies.

its exactly the same, that is why the high handicapper has a high handicap.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am not in favour. If two partners are low handicap and play two high handicappers then it will be very difficult to get near them.

6 hcp players have to give 18 hcp players 11 strokes. There is a decent likelihood that one of the 18s will par any particular hole meaning that a birdie is required for a half.

Previously they would have received 9 shots, quite a difference.

I am interested in the data they used to decide that this change was necessary.

The data they used was from clubs medals/stableford comps entered into the various club systems

 

[KenL]

The data they used was from clubs medals/stableford comps entered into the various club systems

Oh well, maybe it will be fair.

 

[patricks148]

won't be playing in any of the knockout 4BBB comps this year, nothing to do with the new rules, just the pain of trying to organise a game

 

[KenL]

Are you you saying a 6 handicapper isn't capable of scoring a birdie at any one hole, leaving the high handicapper needing a par to halve it?

A 24 handicapper for instance will probably par on average 2-3 holes per round.
A 6 handicapper is likely to score the same ratio of birdies.

its exactly the same, that is why the high handicapper has a high handicap.

A lot of the higher handicappers I play with get lots of pars. I think many of them struggle with card in hand in a comp. In a bounce game, or match play they can play better than their handicap suggests.

I remember playing a 23 hcp player at my old club off 23. I was 5 down after 6 despite being level par! I lost 7 & 6. Absolutely no way I could compete despite playing my best.

I will keep entering though - got to a semi once ☺

 

[delc]

Our Winter 4BBB knockout competitions, which started in November 2015, were already on 90% handicap difference. We were knocked out in the 1st round 3&2, despite me (12) getting an extra shot and my 18 handicap partner getting 2 extra shots over our 6 handicap opponent, but he had a mid handicap partner who was also getting an extra shot. The 6 handicap player played very well and did most of the damage, but when he did have a bad hole, his partner always seemed to step in to secure a half or a win. They just played better as a team than we did.

 

[chrisd]

Our Winter 4BBB knockout competitions, which started in November 2015, were already on 90% handicap difference. We were knocked out in the 1st round 3&2, despite me (12) getting an extra shot and my 18 handicap partner getting 2 extra shots over our 6 handicap opponent, but he had a mid handicap partner who was also getting an extra shot. The 6 handicap player played very well and did most of the damage, but when he did have a bad hole, his partner always seemed to step in to secure a half or a win. They just played better as a team than we did.

Any idea why they did the 90% ?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I think there will be a lot of low handicappers put off entering 4BBB competitions now.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The ideal mix is going to be a low handicapper along side a mid handicapper, can't see 2 high handicappers winning any comps, but they will take the odd scalp, 2 low handicappers won't join up for risk of an early knockout and giving to many shots.

 

[Norrin Radd]

still favours the low h/cappers though.
it should be 100% to be fair imo.
you got a h/cap,they got a h/cap .shots should be the difference not a percentage of.i thought thats what part of the h/cap system was about.the lower cap will be more consistant and should win most times.

 

[delc]

Any idea why they did the 90% ?

Probably because our Winter knockout comps finish in March 2016, when the new rule is in place.

Full handicap difference for singles matches has been in force for some time now and I haven't noticed that high handicappers are winning everything! The way the handicapping system works means that on average, the low handicap players play closer to their handicaps than the high handicappers, not least because their games are more consistent. The smaller reductions for 4BBB matches is fair because each team has two chances to win or half the hole.

 

[chrisd]

Probably because our Winter knockout comps finish in March 2016, when the new rule is in place.

Full handicap difference for singles matches has been in force for some time now and I haven't noticed that high handicappers are winning everything! The way the handicapping system works means that on average, the low handicap players play closer to their handicaps than the high handicappers, not least because their games are more consistent. The smaller reductions for 4BBB matches is fair because each team has two chances to win or half the hole.

A ours the single figure guys don't win the handicap knockout because they set up a scratch comp and don't enter the h/c one. I can see similar happening in the 4bbb ones

 

[delc]

A ours the single figure guys don't win the handicap knockout because they set up a scratch comp and don't enter the h/c one. I can see similar happening in the 4bbb ones

As I understand the stats, full handicap difference just reduces the chance of the lower handicap player(s) winning from 60% to 55%. Of course, they still moan like hell if they get beaten by a high handicapper having a rare good day!

P.S. In scratch competitions the best golfer nearly always wins, so the less skilful higher handicappers have absolutely no chance, so no point in them entering such comps! :mmm:

 

[Smiffy]

I think there will be a lot of low handicappers put off entering 4BBB competitions now.

What, like for curries and things????

 

[Slab]

We had a friendly 4 bbb today under the new handicapping change

I was the lowest on 12 and my partner had 18 our opponents were 15 and 24. The 24 is a competent golfer and quite able to play off 18, my partner is struggling off 18 and trying to bed in swing changes. I played pretty well and we lost 2 and 1 but the difference was two of the extra shots that the two of them wouldn't normally have got !

It's going to get hard to win! Any thoughts?

It does sound like the change in allowance has prevented a possible erroneous result. If one player is struggling and putting swing changes into their game it would have been against the odds that that team managed a draw over 18 holes against a team where one player is able to play lower than his handicap

(whether the 24/18 guy is off the correct playing h/cap is another question altogether)

 

[Fish]

The 3/4 allowance was always not enough, a higher handicap player had to shoot better than his buffer and yet the cat1 or low Cat2 player only had to play to within their buffer, so it was always tough unless you had that really purple day, so for me they still should have gone the full hog and done full allowance, after-all, that's what the handicap system is all about, it's a leveller, but all your going to ever hear this season is bleating about this new rule when someone lower got beat by someone who just happened to get another shot or 2 and had a decent day, it's golf, we all have them, get over it 😉🏌

 

[chrisd]

It does sound like the change in allowance has prevented a possible erroneous result. If one player is struggling and putting swing changes into their game it would have been against the odds that that team managed a draw over 18 holes against a team where one player is able to play lower than his handicap

(whether the 24/18 guy is off the correct playing h/cap is another question altogether)

Unfortunately, you're right, the 24 handicapper is a big strong boy (43) and can play all the shots, he just cocks some up during the round. I'm not complaining about losing but the low handicappers certainly will imo, after all, they rarely enter the handicap knockout.

Personally, off 12, I don't gain or lose much in most of my games by way of shots given or received.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

won't be playing in any of the knockout 4BBB comps this year, nothing to do with the new rules, just the pain of trying to organise a game

I am with you, I used to enter both club and Internet 4bbb comps, but it always seemed to be me chasing both home and away matches, singles is at least a bit easier to organise.

 

[WWG]

We had a friendly 4 bbb today under the new handicapping change

I was the lowest on 12 and my partner had 18 our opponents were 15 and 24. The 24 is a competent golfer and quite able to play off 18, my partner is struggling off 18 and trying to bed in swing changes. I played pretty well and we lost 2 and 1 but the difference was two of the extra shots that the two of them wouldn't normally have got !

It's going to get hard to win! Any thoughts?

Yeh, just enjoy it. I may win one in ten games, and then it's only because the other bloke has played badly. Just enjoy being out there