My Swing Speed Journey

[mrio]

That all lines up with what Athletic Motion Golf have been preaching for years, pro's hand speed peaks really early and they are essentially applying the brakes at impact causing the clubhead speed to really ramp up.

It's worth noting that to achieve that same early peak in speed, you have to apply significantly more force in a shorter range of motion.

 

[Golf is fun]

I think the ideal parameters vary depending on each person’s swing characteristics. However, some things seem generally true, for example, a strong grip tends to favor speed. I believe that’s because you don’t have to consciously (or even subconsciously) work to square the clubface at impact. You can just keep applying force, and the face naturally stays more square. That’s how it felt when I first started using a strong grip: I didn’t have to think about releasing the club—I could just swing fast, and the ball would go.

As for the point where hand speed peaks, there’s definitely an optimal moment for everyone, but it always needs to occur before impact. The deceleration of the hands (more like a pulling motion than a braking one) helps the clubhead accelerate. What’s most fascinating is being able to actually feel this while swinging and make adjustments based on it. That’s something I had never considered before, and it’s amazing.

I think for most people it will be very similar, there is a point where if you peak too soon, the hands slow down very early, the club overtakes and at best you have a massive cast at worst you dig a hole to Australia (nothing against Aussies!). On the other hand, if you peak too late, you don't transfer much of the force/speed you have created at your hands into the club. There's perhaps a bit of variability, but I'd guess not too much, kind of lime with low point, a few variable affect what is optimal, but the window for optimal is not that large.

Were you able to control it with any intentions/feels?

I found that really interesting.

In practical terms does it mean we should all be doing the Tommy Fleetwood try-and-stop-the-hands-at-impact drill as part of speed training to try and increase that “whip crack” effect?

That all lines up with what Athletic Motion Golf have been preaching for years, pro's hand speed peaks really early and they are essentially applying the brakes at impact causing the clubhead speed to really ramp up.

...

Covering these points all broadly together, I could move it yes, but not by consciously slowing down my hands, I think trying to do that would probably end up not having the desired effect.

From how I felt/understood it, it's not the hands slowing making the club go fast, its the club going fast making the hands slow, so the goal is to try and put so much force/speed into the hands you cannot physically accelerate them any more and the magic happens.
Kind of like if you were riding a skateboard and then jumped forward off it, you would slow down the skateboard because of the opposite force created form your jump as opposed to the skateboard hitting the curb and so stopping throwing you forward. If you jumped forward with enough force the skateboard may even stop or reverse. I think the same applies here get as much force as possible into the handle of the club and then the faster the club is moving the greater the reaction force which will slow your hands down.

I'm not stating the with authority though, it's just how it felt to me, hopefully there is some scientific measurement out there that explains it better.

 

[mrio]

Covering these points all broadly together, I could move it yes, but not by consciously slowing down my hands, I think trying to do that would probably end up not having the desired effect.

From how I felt/understood it, it's not the hands slowing making the club go fast, its the club going fast making the hands slow, so the goal is to try and put so much force/speed into the hands you cannot physically accelerate them any more and the magic happens.
Kind of like if you were riding a skateboard and then jumped forward off it, you would slow down the skateboard because of the opposite force created form your jump as opposed to the skateboard hitting the curb and so stopping throwing you forward. If you jumped forward with enough force the skateboard may even stop or reverse. I think the same applies here get as much force as possible into the handle of the club and then the faster the club is moving the greater the reaction force which will slow your hands down.

I'm not stating the with authority though, it's just how it felt to me, hopefully there is some scientific measurement out there that explains it better.

Thanks! I was racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it and maybe I’ve been doing it all along when just trying to maximize speed. You definitely saved me a lot of thinking and a major headache!

 

[VVega]

so the goal is to try and put so much force/speed into the hands

The key question is how to achieve this? Do you feel like you trying to swing your arms hard or rotating your torso fast or driving everything from the hips… or all of the above???

The TPI videos generally show that there are multiple ways of achieving the optimal sequence to max speed and obviously that the feel is not the same as real.

So, what did you do to feel that your are max your hand speed?

 

[Golf is fun]

Thanks! I was racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it and maybe I’ve been doing it all along when just trying to maximize speed. You definitely saved me a lot of thinking and a major headache!

For me at least, I'd say just try getting the hands moving as fast as you can as early as you can, the rest will kind of take care of itself.

 

[mrio]

For me at least, I'd say just try getting the hands moving as fast as you can as early as you can, the rest will kind of take care of itself.

Yes, I actually swing faster and more efficiently when I grip the club very firmly (almost 100%) and focus on generating speed early in the swing.

Some say that’s a recipe for casting, but in my case, the clubhead never gets ahead of my hands, no matter how hard I try.

 

[Golf is fun]

The key question is how to achieve this? Do you feel like you trying to swing your arms hard or rotating your torso fast or driving everything from the hips… or all of the above???

The TPI videos generally show that there are multiple ways of achieving the optimal sequence to max speed and obviously that the feel is not the same as real.

So, what did you do to feel that your are max your hand speed?

All the measurements and tracking, I view this as output, I'll try do something and then see what the output is, and keep adjusting to see what moves it in the way I want. I won't try to specifically move a single joint or body part specifically to do that.
Everyone is different, so I can only tell you what I feel. I just tried to get the grip moving as fast as I could as early as I could, how my body did that I didn't think about.

I think the key is having a measurement for what you are trying to do, and then seeing how you can change it. I don't think you could do it based off someone else's feeling without a measurement to link to that feel.

 

[VVega]

I just tried to get the grip moving as fast as I could as early as I could, how my body did that I didn't think about.

That’s exactly what I was asking, you focused on moving the grip fast as your “feel”.

 

[VVega]

Thought this might be of interest:

He got to 180mph ball speed with no (very minimal) gym work and no speed sticks.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think for most people it will be very similar, there is a point where if you peak too soon, the hands slow down very early, the club overtakes and at best you have a massive cast at worst you dig a hole to Australia (nothing against Aussies!). On the other hand, if you peak too late, you don't transfer much of the force/speed you have created at your hands into the club. There's perhaps a bit of variability, but I'd guess not too much, kind of lime with low point, a few variable affect what is optimal, but the window for optimal is not that large.





Covering these points all broadly together, I could move it yes, but not by consciously slowing down my hands, I think trying to do that would probably end up not having the desired effect.

From how I felt/understood it, it's not the hands slowing making the club go fast, its the club going fast making the hands slow, so the goal is to try and put so much force/speed into the hands you cannot physically accelerate them any more and the magic happens.
Kind of like if you were riding a skateboard and then jumped forward off it, you would slow down the skateboard because of the opposite force created form your jump as opposed to the skateboard hitting the curb and so stopping throwing you forward. If you jumped forward with enough force the skateboard may even stop or reverse. I think the same applies here get as much force as possible into the handle of the club and then the faster the club is moving the greater the reaction force which will slow your hands down.

I'm not stating the with authority though, it's just how it felt to me, hopefully there is some scientific measurement out there that explains it better.

Angular Momentum.

 

[Golf is fun]

Thought this might be of interest:

He got to 180mph ball speed with no (very minimal) gym work and no speed sticks.

I saw that in my feed yesterday and added to my watch later list. Looking forward to getting round to it now.

Angular Momentum.

Can you expand upon that a bit?

 

[mrio]

He got to 180mph ball speed with no (very minimal) gym work and no speed sticks.

I've seen some of his videos. He's done gym work and a lot of speed training in the past, mainly working on ball speed with a simulator, but also using speed sticks. He's basically explored every possible method to reach 180 mph. What that video shows is just the final step—the swing changes that helped him squeeze out those last few mph he couldn't get otherwise.

It's a very interesting video nonetheless. Some of the tips might work for different people, while others may not. For example, a longer swing doesn't give me more speed personally, but using a wider and more open stance is something I now do on every shot.

 

[VVega]

What that video shows is just the final step—the swing changes that helped him squeeze out those last few mph he couldn't get otherwise

I don’t question your data but that’s not what he said

 

[mrio]

I don’t question your data but that’s not what he said

Yep, that’s the point. That’s why I posted the comment

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Been a while ...
Just off the maintenance break and starting level 3 of super speed.
From struggling to get 100 mph with the green im now at 110+
My driver is now at 93 average up from 88 with a recorded high of 97. I feel there is more to come and expect to break the 100 barrier soon, once achieved I'm thinking 150 ball speed will be my next target.
Irons are much improved too , with my 7i around 80mph from low 70s

 

[DeanoMK]

I need to get back on my training soon - I've noticed a real drop off in distances the past few rounds, with the warmer air I was hoping it would go the other way!

Might even do a session tonight just to see where my 'baseline' is right now.

 

[Springveldt]

I need to get back on my training soon - I've noticed a real drop off in distances the past few rounds, with the warmer air I was hoping it would go the other way!

Might even do a session tonight just to see where my 'baseline' is right now.

I'm doing just 1 session a week and it seems to be maintaining my speed. On Wednesday night I went back to my old club and I averaged 269 yards with driver on 13 drives. I've never had that kind of average there, good days were around 250 but over the season the average would drop to around 240 yards. I was way past my usual places on quite a few holes.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

One of my favourite parts of training is an all out session at the range with the driver, just smashing it as hard and fast as I can with no care about where it goes.

 

[VVega]

Just listened to the Chipping Forecast where they discussed Eddie’s withdrawal on the last day of the tournament he was leading due severe back pain.

He cited a recent swing change as a possible culprit. Others chipped in (pun intended ) that his deadlifts would’ve not helped either.

Just a reminder to all - whatever you do to get faster / better/ stronger - approach with caution.

 

[Golf is fun]

Just listened to the Chipping Forecast where they discussed Eddie’s withdrawal on the last day of the tournament he was leading due severe back pain.

He cited a recent swing change as a possible culprit. Others chipped in (pun intended ) that his deadlifts would’ve not helped either.

Just a reminder to all - whatever you do to get faster / better/ stronger - approach with caution.

I have to strongly disagree here, it's frustrating when people with limited sports science or biomechanical knowledge make comments like this.

Assuming there's not some specific context I am missing, like he attempted a new PB 1 rep max deadlift just before the event, then doing deadlifts with proper form and loading shouldn't put you at any particular risk, and is likely to actually be less risky for your back than the golf swing, doubly so in non-elite players who generally have relatively poor strength and mobility. Most research out there will say that deadlifts if performed with good form, sensible loading and fatigue management are generally a positive for those with mild or moderate low back pain.