JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Snelly I have a question for you........ typing it now....... 2 mins....
My Study of OBFL versus NBFL
- Thread starter Patrick57
- Start date
S
Snelly
Guest
:thup: No-one teaches me but if they did, it would be a snap hook in my case. I find a slice difficult to master!
Banana slice is more your area of expertise isn't it mate??? :cheers:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
A man takes his son to a RIFLE RANGE..... the man is an 18 h/cap rifleman and his son shows good promise but doesn't have a shooting h/cap yet... they are shooting fast moving clay pigeons from 100m away... he hits a few but misses loads, whilst they are there the following things happen....
a) Smiffmeister Chopper who is a 28 h/cap rifleman passes by and comments that he read in a magazine that his grip on the trigger needs to be lighter and he needs to press the butt of the gun into his shoulder a little more
b) James Tilt (Stack to his friends) passes by and explains that the boy needs to shoot in FRONT of the pigeon by 2 feet at that range to allow time for the pigeon to fly into the bullet, he also needs to aim 1 foot above the pigeon as gravity at that range means the bullet will drop 1 foot... basically the 'Bullet flight Laws'
c) Wing Commander Snelly complete with flared shorts and handlebar tache walks past and says he just aims straight at the pigeon never in front and never above, and has a shooting h/cap of 2 and has been shooting for 20yrs
Given that there's a certain thing to be said for the 'Bullet flight laws' (gravity is a fixed force) which person should the man choose to give his son a lesson? The one who reads mags for tips, the one who knows the 'bullet flight laws' or the one who THINKS he aims straight at the pigeon?
a) Smiffmeister Chopper who is a 28 h/cap rifleman passes by and comments that he read in a magazine that his grip on the trigger needs to be lighter and he needs to press the butt of the gun into his shoulder a little more
b) James Tilt (Stack to his friends) passes by and explains that the boy needs to shoot in FRONT of the pigeon by 2 feet at that range to allow time for the pigeon to fly into the bullet, he also needs to aim 1 foot above the pigeon as gravity at that range means the bullet will drop 1 foot... basically the 'Bullet flight Laws'
c) Wing Commander Snelly complete with flared shorts and handlebar tache walks past and says he just aims straight at the pigeon never in front and never above, and has a shooting h/cap of 2 and has been shooting for 20yrs
Given that there's a certain thing to be said for the 'Bullet flight laws' (gravity is a fixed force) which person should the man choose to give his son a lesson? The one who reads mags for tips, the one who knows the 'bullet flight laws' or the one who THINKS he aims straight at the pigeon?
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
You forgot a bit...
All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
S
Snelly
Guest
Lovely post! Nice one James!
But first things first my townie friend!
Pigeons, even clay ones, are despatched with lead shot from shotguns, not bullets from rifles.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Lovely post! Nice one James!
But first things first my townie friend!
Damn, I thought you were going to query which gun they were using!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Damn, I thought you were going to query which gun they were using!
Maybe it was the Old Bullet Flight Laws Gun. That one had a bent barrel. You aim at the pigeon and shoot his mate.
S
Snelly
Guest
Damn, I thought you were going to query which gun they were using!
That said, I love the eloquence of your example and I think I understand the point you are making.
The shooting analogy is a very interesting one and does have comparisons to golf and this argument albeit to a lesser extent.
In general terms, if someone asked me about learning to shoot or play golf, my advice would be exactly the same really. Have a couple of lessons from a professional teacher who comes highly recommended. Gain a genuine understanding of fundamentals to success, etiquette and safety and then when you feel ready, venture out into the field or onto the course and hit balls / fire shots.
You will have good and bad days. Remember the things that work and practice them and discard the elements that are not working. Periodically, return to your teacher for a tweak here and there. If you put the effort and hours in, you will become a proficient shot or player.
That said, if I try and relate your analogy to this thread specifically, I am not sure I would have a different view to the one I have posted above. Basically, I don't think a detailed understanding of the effect of physics on a shot pattern is going to make you a better shot. What would make you hit more clays is pulling the trigger at the right moment as you swing through the flight line of the bird. Best way to learn this is to shoot at a lot of clay pigeons and when you find a method (there are three main techniques by the way) that works for you then stick to it and basically, remember that practice makes perfect.
Not sure if this furthers the debate or not but I enjoyed reading your post very much!
And lastly, I am not the greatest shot - far from it! Need more practice!
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Snelly I think the point I was making is that even though you're a great shot it has taken time to master through making mistakes whereas if the 'bullet flight laws' are pointed out then the trial and error part can quickly be eliminated (or reduced) by the child. It would be wrong to dismiss them even though you're a 2 h/cap rifleman who can get the job done his own way (whatever that may be).
Clearly you don't need them yourself but it wouldn't be right to try and 'encourage' everyone not to bother... or would it?
Clearly you don't need them yourself but it wouldn't be right to try and 'encourage' everyone not to bother... or would it?
S
Snelly
Guest
The bullet flight laws are incredibly complex and it does help me to shoot better if I understand them. BUT, the same goes for everyone who shoots rifles. You need to know in order to be able to hit a target at a given distance.
Where you and I differ is that in terms of golf, I don't think the ball flight laws are a necessary part of the learning process but I guess you do?
I don't think they are a short cut to improvement at all but maybe you and others do?
Either way, I reiterate my previous point which is if golfers are helped by understanding the new ball flight laws then that is great for them and I wish them well. However there are more ways to skin a cat and I am I would hope, providing a considered alternative perspective to yours.
Because as I am sure we both agree, there isn't just one way to learn to play golf and what works for you might not work for me.
Patrick57
Head Pro
why do the NBFL followers need to mention that damn tree as if they are making a brilliant point.
Patrick57
Head Pro
Why would they use your method instead of just knowing the correct ballflight laws and using them? I don't get why they would choose a method like yours that is wrong... even your chart is wrong... unless you don't tell them that yours is wrong of course
If your clubface is to the right of the target that ball is going to start to the right of the target (even if it's only by one inch)... that's undisputed.... apart from BY YOU.... and your chart.
I've answered this question!
Patrick57
Head Pro
None of the above!
but 10 out of 10 for assimilation.
I'm now going to rack my brains for a similar example.
Last edited:
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Snelly,
I do like your angle on the subject, although it's different to mine and Jo's you do reason it well. That is a bit of a breath of fresh air against some of the dross being posted here.
I would just like to point out that I do not suggest that the average golfer needs to understand anything about the Physics of golf. That's for anoraks like me who need to get into subject matter up to the armpits. These ball flight laws are quite easy to teach, Bob made a few simple explanations earlier and I think these were just about right. James also has explained the basic concepts in a fairly straight forward manner and I am sure if he was teaching someone on the range they would pick it up very quickly.
I do like your angle on the subject, although it's different to mine and Jo's you do reason it well. That is a bit of a breath of fresh air against some of the dross being posted here.
I would just like to point out that I do not suggest that the average golfer needs to understand anything about the Physics of golf. That's for anoraks like me who need to get into subject matter up to the armpits. These ball flight laws are quite easy to teach, Bob made a few simple explanations earlier and I think these were just about right. James also has explained the basic concepts in a fairly straight forward manner and I am sure if he was teaching someone on the range they would pick it up very quickly.
Patrick57
Head Pro
OK,
Assimilation time...
A man takes his son to the pub..... the man is an 18 h/capat darts and his son shows good promise but doesn't have a h/cap at darts yet... they are playing 501 from 8 feet away from the board... he hits a few winning doubles but misses loads, whilst they are there the following things happen....
a) Smiffmeister Chopper who is a 28 h/cap dart player passes by and comments that he read in a magazine that his grip on the dart needs to be lighter and he needs to bend more at the elbow during the throwing motion
b) James Tilt (Stack to his friends) passes by and explains that the boy needs to aim 6" above the double as gravity at that range means the dart will drop 6"... basically the 'dart flight Laws'
c) Wing Commander Snelly complete with flared shorts and handlebar tache walks past and says he just aims straight at the double, never to the side and never above, and has a dart playing h/cap of 2 and has been throwing good darts for 20yrs
Given that there's a certain thing to be said for the 'Dart flight laws' (gravity is a fixed force) which person should the man choose to give his son a lesson? The one who reads mags for tips, the one who knows the "dart flight laws' or the one who THINKS he aims straight at the double?
I would say this scenario is similar and also inconclusive as to who the boy should choose.
Assimilation time...
A man takes his son to the pub..... the man is an 18 h/capat darts and his son shows good promise but doesn't have a h/cap at darts yet... they are playing 501 from 8 feet away from the board... he hits a few winning doubles but misses loads, whilst they are there the following things happen....
a) Smiffmeister Chopper who is a 28 h/cap dart player passes by and comments that he read in a magazine that his grip on the dart needs to be lighter and he needs to bend more at the elbow during the throwing motion
b) James Tilt (Stack to his friends) passes by and explains that the boy needs to aim 6" above the double as gravity at that range means the dart will drop 6"... basically the 'dart flight Laws'
c) Wing Commander Snelly complete with flared shorts and handlebar tache walks past and says he just aims straight at the double, never to the side and never above, and has a dart playing h/cap of 2 and has been throwing good darts for 20yrs
Given that there's a certain thing to be said for the 'Dart flight laws' (gravity is a fixed force) which person should the man choose to give his son a lesson? The one who reads mags for tips, the one who knows the "dart flight laws' or the one who THINKS he aims straight at the double?
I would say this scenario is similar and also inconclusive as to who the boy should choose.
Last edited:
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
As interesting these allegorical examples are none of them have a property similar to sidespin. The bullet rises and falls like a golfball, as does the dart but neither turns sideways in flight while rising and falling.
Now! I look forward to the story where young Becks is watching his dad try to bend the ball.
Now! I look forward to the story where young Becks is watching his dad try to bend the ball.
Last edited:
Patrick57
Head Pro
yes, golf is the only dead ball sport I can think of that involves a club and an ascending/descending flight where the ball also curves.
That makes a better assimilation difficult.
kid2
Money List Winner
Patrick57
Head Pro
dead Ball sport?
kid2
Money List Winner
Sideline cut:
The ball is static on the ground....When hit it can have either sidespin left or right depending on the hit....And also ascends and descends in flight.....
So i would assume its a dead ball before being hit?
