Migrant problem in Kent/Sussex

[Wolf]

France is in no way singularly responsible for this tragedy, they along with every other EU country the migrants pass through bury their heads in the sand and want the people to go away and be someone elses problem.

Regarding people condemning without a solution, surely if you want to condem politicians for example then you must be able to justify your condemnations and in doing so you have to say what they are doing wrong, if you cannot offer an alternative solution then how can you say they're wrong. Its like saying Corbyn critised the Governments spending policy but couldnt offer an alternative policy.

I agree with you the only solution to this is for Countries to work together and be committed to a solution, ecconomic migrants need to be returned to their countries where possible, those needing political asylum need their claims processing at the earliest opportunity and if found proven should be allocated a country to live in safely but it cannot be one of their choosing. World Governments need to be fully signed up to taking their quotas.

I have written this response at length several times and deleted it as well. But instead I'll just say this, a poster rightly questions the validity of a far right propaganda poster suggesting its best to check those facts and what is the response they get... Someone trying to suggest they shouldn't comment unless they have the solution.
Its quite sad and indicative of all the immigration and political threads on here someone can post far right or left garbage and but others are not be allowed to question the source material...

 

[SocketRocket]

So you've come to that conclusion because I posted that some clearly right wing media sources need to be thoroughly fact checked? . I try to do the same with any media source, the ones I quoted are consistently biased, out of context or lacking significant detail. They should not be taken at face value. If that is not on your radar then there is no discussion, your mind is closed. Its as simple as that

I came to that conclusion due to your apparent silly putdowns rather than debating the subject. If you would like a reasoned discussion I'm all for it but if you want to make insulting sound bites I have nothing further to discuss with you.

 

[SocketRocket]

I have written this response at length several times and deleted it as well. But instead I'll just say this, a poster rightly questions the validity of a far right propaganda poster suggesting its best to check those facts and what is the repose they get... Someone trying to suggest they shouldn't comment unless they have the solution.
Its quite sad and indicative of all the immigration and political threads on here someone can post far right or left garbage and but others are not be allowed to question the source material...

I'm not interested in discussing the source of the article, the discussion had moved on as far as I was concerned and as such I was debating the general situation regarding these migrants in France. I'm also not posting about left or right wing rhetoric, I'm not really interested in that I'm interested in how we can reach a good solution to this awful situation.

 

[Griffsters]

I came to that conclusion due to your apparent silly putdowns

I'm sorry you have chosen to take it that way.

I have nothing further to discuss with you.

Nothing further? You mean you had started

 

[SocketRocket]

Nothing further? You mean you had started

If you're going to quote me then do it in context and show the whole line, not the bit that suits your agenda.

 

[Wolf]

I'm not interested in discussing the source of the article, the discussion had moved on as far as I was concerned and as such I was debating the general situation regarding these migrants in France. I'm also not posting about left or right wing rhetoric, I'm not really interested in that I'm interested in how we can reach a good solution to this awful situation.

Yet the poster you quoted all they did was question the validity based on who the source material was. They didn't mention France or anything else. Yet you felt the need to call them out asking for a solution. If you weren't interested in someone questioning the source why reply in the first place and ask them for the answers.

Playing the poster rather than the post perhaps or merely want everyone to see things from your perspective rather than anything else ??‍

As I said previously there is only 1 solution to this, the government does its job properly in conjunction with other European countries. If we're paying for a service that's not being delivered then they need to cancel that agreement and negotiate a new deal. Its a bit like Tesco paying G4S £5million a year for security guards but then the G4S guards letting shoplifters just walk out the door with trolley loads of food. In business that would be addressed, contracts cancelled and either new deal struck elsewhere or in House management find their own strategy to fix it.

But on that I've nothing else to add to this thread as it already gone down hill just like every thread about immigration does so I'm out ??

 

[Griffsters]

If you're going to quote me then do it in context and show the whole line, not the bit that suits your agenda.

Spoil sport, I was having so much fun.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I came to that conclusion due to your apparent silly putdowns rather than debating the subject. If you would like a reasoned discussion I'm all for it but if you want to make insulting sound bites I have nothing further to discuss with you.

 

[Taz]

Yes.

I thought we weren't, I'd be interested to know your source so I can have a read, ta.

 

[SocketRocket]

Yet the poster you quoted all they did was question the validity based on who the source material was. They didn't mention France or anything else. Yet you felt the need to call them out asking for a solution. If you weren't interested in someone questioning the source why reply in the first place and ask them for the answers.

Playing the poster rather than the post perhaps or merely want everyone to see things from your perspective rather than anything else ??‍

As I said previously there is only 1 solution to this, the government does its job properly in conjunction with other European countries. If we're paying for a service that's not being delivered then they need to cancel that agreement and negotiate a new deal. Its a bit like Tesco paying G4S £5million a year for security guards but then the G4S guards letting shoplifters just walk out the door with trolley loads of food. In business that would be addressed, contracts cancelled and either new deal struck elsewhere or in House management find their own strategy to fix it.

But on that I've nothing else to add to this thread as it already gone down hill just like every thread about immigration does so I'm out ??

I asked him if he had any solutions as it seems to me if someone merely condemns others views without explaining where they were wrong they are as bad themselves. I dont understand why you are mentioning France, I never asked him about France. I suggest you are playing the poster due to the subject being related to immigration and if it's gone down hill it's due to posters reverting to name calling and silly insults rather than discussion. Post #129 and its 'likes' are typical.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I thought we weren't, I'd be interested to know your source so I can have a read, ta.

Well the question was so vague, I read it in context of your op, so Yes, we’ll still have the same responsibilities for saving life at sea and dealing with illegal immigrants who become our responsibility to process.

If it is in terms of leaving the EU, the problem could get worse.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Regarding people condemning without a solution, surely if you want to condem politicians for example then you must be able to justify your condemnations and in doing so you have to say what they are doing wrong, if you cannot offer an alternative solution then how can you say they're wrong. Its like saying Corbyn critised the Governments spending policy but couldnt offer an alternative policy.
...

I disagree!

It's NOT (necessarily) a requirement for those condemning inaction (or wrong action) to offer the solution, simply identify the problem(s) and, perhaps, to suggest the 'metrics of success'! It's then up to the Government (in this case) to subsequently decide what action, if any, to take in order to achieve targets IT produces that in order to achieve the suggested metrics!. This is because solutions supplied by individuals will, by definition, always be 'biased' because of their personal circumstances, rather than overall . It's government's role to look at the overall issue and decide the action to take in the best interest of the whole country! This shouldn't prevent them offering solution(s), just not require them to!

Oh! And it's quite legitimate for Corbyn (or, these days Sir Keir) to criticise the Government spending policy if he felt they were/are spending in the wrong areas, or even simply wasting money! That is, after all, the most important function of HM's Opposition - to scrutinise and criticise! HS2's increasing burden would be an example of an area where an 'alternative policy' would not necessarily be required.

 

[SocketRocket]

I disagree!

It's NOT (necessarily) a requirement for those condemning inaction (or wrong action) to offer the solution, simply identify the problem(s) and, perhaps, to suggest the 'metrics of success'! It's then up to the Government (in this case) to subsequently decide what action, if any, to take in order to achieve targets IT produces that in order to achieve the suggested metrics!. This is because solutions supplied by individuals will, by definition, always be 'biased' because of their personal circumstances, rather than overall . It's government's role to look at the overall issue and decide the action to take in the best interest of the whole country! This shouldn't prevent them offering solution(s), just not require them to!

Oh! And it's quite legitimate for Corbyn (or, these days Sir Keir) to criticise the Government spending policy if he felt they were/are spending in the wrong areas, or even simply wasting money! That is, after all, the most important function of HM's Opposition - to scrutinise and criticise! HS2's increasing burden would be an example of an area where an 'alternative policy' would not necessarily be required.

I dont disagree with that, I just dont like people saying this or that persons views are wrong without explaining why and where possible what would be better.

 

[DCB]

A lively debate going on Gents. Let's remember to keep it Civil please. No need for personal insults and unnecessary fishing for a response.

Thank You

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Back to the original topic if possible - if we started sending these migrant boats back to France and stopped allowing that nation to turn a blind eye to the whole thing, maybe they would start to get their own house in order. But because the UK is seen by a soft touch by everyone involved, they will keep coming.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Back to the original topic if possible - if we started sending these migrant boats back to France and stopped allowing that nation to turn a blind eye to the whole thing, maybe they would start to get their own house in order. But because the UK is seen by a soft touch by everyone involved, they will keep coming.

I totally agree with your sentiment, but, we can’t just send them back!! We can’t pick and choose which parts of International Law and UN Charters we like and don’t like.

The French are not turning a blind eye to anything, they have enough problems of their own with the migrants and illegal immigrants that wish to stay in France.

 

[Hobbit]

Last year there were net 280,000 non-EU migrants, and there's news reports of more coming over the channel.

The British farmers are desperately short of pickers. Should the UK offer the migrants work to offset the cost of staying and, bearing in mind 90% of them end up staying. make it a prerequisite of staying permanently, i.e. x amount of community work/harvesting?

 

[patricks148]

on the subject of migration, i see there was big jump in the numbers from outside the EU in the figures today.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-level-brexit-ons-figures-work-a9362531.html

this must be what the Gov meant by taking back control of our Borders

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Last year there were net 280,000 non-EU migrants, and there's news reports of more coming over the channel.

The British farmers are desperately short of pickers. Should the UK offer the migrants work to offset the cost of staying and, bearing in mind 90% of them end up staying. make it a prerequisite of staying permanently, i.e. x amount of community work/harvesting?

We certainly need to do something, both as an Individual Nation and in agreement with other Nations.

Thinking that just saying telling them to go away is going to work is just plain daft.

Plus we must accept that whatever measures we take there will always be those who try to come by illegal means.

 

[Hobbit]

We certainly need to do something, both as an Individual Nation and in agreement with other Nations.

Thinking that just saying telling them to go away is going to work is just plain daft.

Plus we must accept that whatever measures we take there will always be those who try to come by illegal means.

Its just a suggestion Paul. The current tried and tested method fails miserably, so why not just accept that some are coming and actually work with them to find a solution.