Maximum Handicap For Men - Again...

[Tiger]

Snelly could you give some clarity please. Are you saying the maximum hcap should be 18, the max for comps should be 18 or that you shouldnt be allowed on certain courses unless your handicap is below 18? I don't agree with any of these but have empathy with the middle one

 

[Fader]

Max handicap snobbery afoot again on the forum no surprise there really.

I have no issue with someone play off scratch or 28 as long as they get enjoyment out of it, and so what if they have the occaisional super round thats what the handicap system is for it means the better they play the more they'll get cut. We all have to start or finish playing this game somewhere.

My first handicap in 2011 when I started was 19 and it came down, likewise my dads been playing for 30 odd years and is slowly going up was a Cat 1 player and now is heading towards the teens and will likely by the time he finishes playing will need more than 1 shot a hole but its his retirement, its what he enjoys doing and tell him he can't play into his late 70's because he has to limit the number or shots which will limit his enjoyment as his years progress is like saying you may as well be put down.

Some guys need it because of age and health but good on them still playing, others need it because of ability but they pay their membership and without many of them doing that because the handicaps restricted would mean even more clubs goto the wall...

 

[TheClaw]

Why do we need to make golf a level playing field?? It doesn't happen in any other sport.

Would people not enjoy getting a PB score against par? When I shoot below par (net) I don't for a minute pretend to myself that I actually 'beat' the course.

 

[garyinderry]

with the introduction of ESR things have become better.


most players cannot compete with a rapidly improving player who is given a 28 handicap to start. the ESR brings this closer together a lot quicker than in previous years. without the ESR an improving player can dominate a field for weeks on end.

 

[Slab]

Why do we need to make golf a level playing field?? It doesn't happen in any other sport.

Would people not enjoy getting a PB score against par? When I shoot below par (net) I don't for a minute pretend to myself that I actually 'beat' the course.

Re my bold: It does in boxing

It always seems to be held up as a feature and attraction of golf that two FC's can have a competitive game regardless of ability (well almost as it always favors the low handicapper)

Agree though I'm always looking to better my PB (it matters to me far more than competition golf)

 

[garyinderry]

snooker has a handicap system at amateur levels I believe.

 

[ger147]

As does Horse Racing and Motor Racing at professional levels.

 

[Foxholer]

Why do we need to make golf a level playing field?? It doesn't happen in any other sport.

Would people not enjoy getting a PB score against par? When I shoot below par (net) I don't for a minute pretend to myself that I actually 'beat' the course.

Well, actual number of shots/scratch is always part of my assessment of my score in any round. Though points - against SSS is also part of it too.

Because handicap is such an integral part of the game - and always has been. It should mean that any player can have an 'even' match with any other player. Works extremely well for the great majority of matche/players.

My view is that handicap golf should be competitively social - or socially competitive. For pure competition, then Scratch comps are there to play. For pure Social, don't even keep score except on the hole being played.

I bet there are actually loads of Sunningdale member who are off more than 18 btw. I certainly know a couple. Some would have the good sense to play off forward tees (there's quite a choice) to make it enjoyable for both themselves and everyone else in the group or on the course!

I've played off the Purples at Walton Heath a number of times, but wouldn't want to do that every round like a couple of my near Cat 1 mates do. Whites are plenty long enough for me - even perhaps bordering on too long, but that's an enjoyable challenge.

At The Shire, we decide which tees depending on makeup of the group and the conditions - mainly strength of wind. Played off the back (Green) tees it's a monster rather than fun and even the Pros don't play all holes from them.

 

[gryffindor]

I didn't know about snooker handicaps - I have always thought it interesting that golf was one of the very few sports where you can know, without even playing someone, that you are 'better' (or much worse) than them. (Polo is the only other one I could think of).

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I have some sympathy with Snelly's view after what I witnessed on Monday but I'm not sure it is necessarily to do solely with handicaps but also to do with the players understanding of the game and their game. I don't see why someone with a h'cap over 18 should be excluded on the basis of h'cap alone as long as they have an appreciation of the basic rules, the etiquette, the pace of play and their own ability. Unfortunately, you can't ask someone for a certificate that shows they understand what is expected of them on the course.

 

[DCB]

with the introduction of ESR things have become better.


most players cannot compete with a rapidly improving player who is given a 28 handicap to start. the ESR brings this closer together a lot quicker than in previous years. without the ESR an improving player can dominate a field for weeks on end.

If that happens the handicap convener should get a boot up the backside. There was the facility for review and action before ESR came in (not in use up here yet) and anyone showing on the radar should be watched as a matter of course.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

I have just booked a day at Sunningdale in August and on the form it states:

Please note: Sunningdale recommends handicaps do not exceed 18 and all golfers should demonstrate a satisfactory level of competence or may be asked to return to the Clubhouse.


Just posting to say I agree with this as a rule of thumb. A shot a hole is enough for anyone and a limit of 18 would stop winning scores of 45+ points - a good thing in my view - and I suspect would also focus the minds of players with higher handicaps and encourage them to improve to a moderate standard of play.

I appreciate that this might cause some consternation with those who do have handicaps higher than this and I don't mean to offend. I just think that Sunningdale have got this absolutely spot on.

I have to agree with you, a mans max handicap has gone up 10 shots yet equipment has supposedly made the game easier, bringing it back down to 18 for men and women in competitions would be a good thing IMO

 

[TheClaw]

Re my bold: It does in boxing

It always seems to be held up as a feature and attraction of golf that two FC's can have a competitive game regardless of ability (well almost as it always favors the low handicapper)

Agree though I'm always looking to better my PB (it matters to me far more than competition golf)

How is this the case in boxing? Are you referring to classification e.g weight?

 

[Fish]

How is this the case in boxing? Are you referring to classification e.g weight?

Amount of rounds and times of rounds at different levels of ability.

 

[Five&One]

I have to agree with you, a mans max handicap has gone up 10 shots yet equipment has supposedly made the game easier, bringing it back down to 18 for men and women in competitions would be a good thing IMO

Totally demotivating anyone over 20 and that includes almost all guys new to the game. And for what purpose ? Protecting the good players winning chances from the odd freak performance by a high handicapper. Removing the rather offensive sight of a high handicapper taking 3 to get out a bunker ?

Golf is unique and joyful because of the handicap system.

It smacks of elitism and exclusionism to me. Clubs would be absolutely horrified if this were to happen in the current economic climate. I certainly would not be a member of any club in those circumstances so there is the best part of £1200 a year taken out of the golfing economy right away.. Golf is a long term vocation. You cant just pick it up and expect to be good at it. It takes years and it takes a bit of work and a bit of dedication and a bit of time and a bit of motivation and encouragement (you get part of that encouragement from competing on a level playing field with better players - I certainly do) and it takes playing regularly, which means the higher the handicapper the more often you have to play to get good, the more often you are at the bar, the more often you hire a buggy and most importantly the more money you spend on lessons and equipment (if you are anything like me). All of this keeps clubs going and you want to effectively exclude them from competitive golf at amateur level ?

Are you quite mad ?

Jesus the snobbery with guys who were once over 20 themselves beggars belief sometimes.

 

[Fish]

Totally demotivating anyone over 20 and that includes almost all guys new to the game. And for what purpose ? Protecting the good players winning chances from the odd freak performance by a high handicapper. Removing the rather offensive sight of a high handicapper taking 3 to get out a bunker ?

Golf is unique and joyful because of the handicap system.

It smacks of elitism and exclusionism to me. Clubs would be absolutely horrified if this were to happen in the current economic climate. I certainly would not be a member of any club in those circumstances. Golf is a long term vocation. You cant just pick it up and expect to be good at it. It takes years and it takes a bit of work and a bit of dedication and a bit of time and a bit of motivation and encouragement (you get part of that encouragement from competing on a level playing field with better players - I certainly do) and it takes playing regularly, which means the higher the handicapper the more often you have to play to get good, the more often you are at the bar, the more often you hire a buggy and most importantly the more money you spend on lessons and equipment (if you are anything like me). All of this keeps clubs going and you want to effectively exclude them from competitive golf ?

Are you quite mad ?

Jesus the snobbery with guys who were once over 20 themselves beggars belief sometimes.

+1, that'll do for me :thup:

 

[TheClaw]

I still don't get it. Golf isn't my first sport. In other sports if I turned up to play with people that are better than me I get beat and if I'm better than them I win. It doesn't hurt my feelings when I get beat by people that, for whatever reason, are better than me.

The whole thing is flawed anyway. I can't remember the last time I actually shot my handicap on the number.

Age classification etc is fine but ability classification should be win or lose (like the pros!).

 

[gryffindor]

I still don't get it. Golf isn't my first sport. In other sports if I turned up to play with people that are better than me I get beat and if I'm better than them I win. It doesn't hurt my feelings when I get beat by people that, for whatever reason, are better than me.

The whole thing is flawed anyway. I can't remember the last time I actually shot my handicap on the number.

Age classification etc is fine but ability classification should be win or lose (like the pros!).

I used to play tennis to a reasonable standard. Every now and again I came up against someone who was absolutely brilliant. There was no game. I would never return a serve and they would bat mine back to impossible places. Golf is unique in that an amateur can compete fairly against a world champion - and long may it remain so. We often have three generations playing a fair match. In what other sport can that happen?

 

[TheClaw]

I used to play tennis to a reasonable standard. Every now and again I came up against someone who was absolutely brilliant. There was no game. I would never return a serve and they would bat mine back to impossible places. Golf is unique in that an amateur can compete fairly against a world champion - and long may it remain so. We often have three generations playing a fair match. In what other sport can that happen?

Snooker, darts, bowls...

 

[gryffindor]

Snooker, darts, bowls...

They are technically games. (Though come to think of it so is golf!)