Matchplay Question

[Iaing]

If you're playing a singles matchplay tie away from home and your opponent ( nice guy ) keeps telling you what club to hit, is this a breach of the rules?
Ie.
" You're safe to hit driver here"
Or
" Don't hit driver, there's cross bunkers at driving distance."

 

[alisoncc]

"Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play". 8-1 states that "During a stipulated round a player MUST not give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other than his partner". Penalty Match play - Loss of hole, Stroke play Two strokes.

 

[Colin L]

What a dilemma for you. This nice guy, I take it, is just trying to be helpful to a guest on his course and goes that step too far in what he says. It's fine to tell you that there are bunkers a couple of hundred yards away or any other factual matter about the course, but not to advise you on your club selection. And you, a nice guy too, appreciate his helpfulness but are aware that you could be claiming the hole at every hole he does it.

Since by offering all this advice he is clearly seeing the match as friendly competition, I think what I would do in those circumstances, for what it's worth, would be to start up a friendly conversation about the rules. "Look I really appreciate your telling me about the course, but I don't think you know that you're not allowed to suggest what clubs I should use and you could lose the hole for doing it". And we could have a relaxed discussion of what is allowed and what is not. I wouldn't claim any hole in that sort of context, however.

Does that make me a nice guy too?

 

[MashieNiblick]

The Rule on Advice (8-1) states

"During a stipulated round, a player must not:
a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other than his partner, or
b. ask for advice from anyone other than his partner or either of their caddies.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes."

The full definition of advice is

"Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

The examples you give are a bit marginal as it looks like the intent is to give you information about the location of the bunkers, which is fine, but are worded in terms of whether or not it is safe to use your driver.

Personally I would view them more as attempts to give information and let them go. I agree that it seems the guy is just trying to be helpful but isn't choosing his words sufficiently carefully in terms of a strict interpretation of the Rules.

 

[CMAC]

he's just being uber helpful, no malice or gameplay intended here methinks

 

[6inchcup]

another instance of this stupid rule! as i have said before i always thought golf was a game played by gentlemen in a friendly manner,if someone OFFERS me advice is it not up to me if i use it or not?

 

[rosecott]

another instance of this stupid rule! as i have said before i always thought golf was a game played by gentlemen in a friendly manner,if someone OFFERS me advice is it not up to me if i use it or not?

Ah, but what if the advice offered is wrong, either deliberately or otherwise. Surely it's better to stick to a long established rule that removes all possibilities.

 

[Colin L]

another instance of this stupid rule! as i have said before i always thought golf was a game played by gentlemen in a friendly manner,if someone OFFERS me advice is it not up to me if i use it or not?

As you see from the responses to the OP's question, we seem to be seeing the player's advice as being given, as the home player, in a friendly and helpful way. As such, I wouldn't claim any holes for it and being matchplay it is up to me. If someone tried to put me off by telling me that my grip is wrong, or to swing on a different path etc. that would be different and I would be glad to have this "stupid" rule to prevent it.

In stroke play , which is as ever different, would you be happy in your monthly medal to know that in another game two guys were constantly coaching each other - say adjusting each other's grip, posture and stance and checking alignment before shots. They would be gaining an advantage over the rest of the field and if third player in the group was doing nothing to invoke this "stupid" rule, you would be one of those disadvantaged.

 

[chrisd]

Ah, but what if the advice offered is wrong, either deliberately or otherwise. Surely it's better to stick to a long established rule that removes all possibilities.

How about a change to the rule so that if some one gives you advice and as a result you cock the hole up, you have a free kick at their dangly bits. There could be a variation for ladies games or mixed!

 

[alisoncc]

In stroke play , which is as ever different, would you be happy in your monthly medal to know that in another game two guys were constantly coaching each other

Had something quite close to that a few weeks ago. A couple of guys who had been playing socially together for a year or two have just joined our club. They turned up latish for the Saturday comp and so were paired together. As the ex-ladies vice captain it was suggested I join them as they weren't very familiar with the course. Twice I had to remind them, in a friendly way, that giving each other advice about the borrow on the greens, and any slope on the fairways thus where to aim for, was very much out-of-order. One responded that "it's only a game".

 

[RGDave]

Tough one.

I'd probably remind him of the rules.

I certainly wouldn't wish to see him get in trouble, so I'd keep quiet.

Depends how friendly it is, I guess.

(In essence it's all wrong and players should know better.)

 

[RGDave]

One responded that "it's only a game".

It is only a game, until it's a proper competition round, then rules apply.

 

[6inchcup]

i think there is a difference to someone giving ADVICE as in pointing out trouble to someone new to the course and ASSISTANCE in swing path etc.How would you look upon a fellow golfer if playing on his own course in an away comp that you had never played before,you kept putting your tee shots into the doo-doo (blind holes)and just stayed quit or just smiled.

 

[louise_a]

Being a nice person, I was trying to advise my opponent today not to go for the green over a wide ditch. Rather than say, I would lay up if I were you, I pointed out the 150yd marker that was in front of her ball and told her that the ditch stretched almost to the green.

 

[Foxholer]

Being a nice person, I was trying to advise my opponent today not to go for the green over a wide ditch. Rather than say, I would lay up if I were you, I pointed out the 150yd marker that was in front of her ball and told her that the ditch stretched almost to the green.

That strikes me as precisely the way to do it - stick to facts.

As far as the OP's query goes, I would reply that what my opponent was saying was 'bordering on advice', so would prefer if he stuck to facts about the course. As I'd also have a SkyCaddie with me, so could also say 'I can see that on the SC'.....

 

[Colin L]

i think there is a difference to someone giving ADVICE as in pointing out trouble to someone new to the course and ASSISTANCE in swing path etc.How would you look upon a fellow golfer if playing on his own course in an away comp that you had never played before,you kept putting your tee shots into the doo-doo (blind holes)and just stayed quit or just smiled.

I think you are misunderstanding what advice is in terms of the Rules To point out trouble as in "just over that ridge there is a burn crossing the fairway" is not advice. Where the OP's opponent was going wrong was by saying things like "so you would be better not to hit a driver". Telling him what is there in the way of "trouble" is ok because it is information; telling him how to deal with it is advice about how to go about playing the hole and is not allowed.