Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Fine, as you'll know that 'help' has limits in foursomes. Essentially this:
You can help the same way as a caddy would be able to help. If a caddy cant do it neither can a foursomes partner
Matchplay - Foursomes / Lining up a playing partner (2 parts)
- Thread starter JonnyGutteridge
- Start date
Fine, as you'll know that 'help' has limits in foursomes. Essentially this:
You can help the same way as a caddy would be able to help. If a caddy cant do it neither can a foursomes partner
rulefan
Tour Winner
salfordlad
Well-known member
This is not clear for me. Precisely how are you helping (or intending to help) your partner with their shot?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I could suggest the line of a putt or for a shot to a green where the best miss would be for me to recover us to the green and flag. Or if he asks should he lay up or go for it. Standard team foursomes play partner chat as I have done for 40yrs playing foursomes.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Can you give me an example of something a foursomes partner can’t do.
salfordlad
Well-known member
There are no issues here, these are all permitted actions in partner play.
They cannot stand in the restricted area behind the partner putting and assist them in aiming while the partner putts (10.2b(4)). They cannot stand behind the partner in the restricted area while the partner putts to learn something for the side's next stroke (22.6).
rulefan
Tour Winner
See post #42
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Both of which I knew but I thought worth checking.
woofers
Medal Winner
This is slightly adrift of the thread title as it’s not matchplay specific but the ‘lining up’ issue is relevant.
Could you clarify the situation in a team event please, e.g. best 2 of 4.
10.2b(4) refers to Rules 22, 23 and 24 for forms of play involving partners and there are specific rules entitled Restriction on Player Standing Behind Partner When Stroke Made in foursomes (22.6) and four-ball (23.8) but there isn’t a similar rule in Rule 24 Team Competitions.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Team events such as AMAM's are not included in the RoG. So any views on here will be opinion and it would be down to the organising committee to rule.
D-S
Well-known member
Is there a document/list of which rules, including the one referred to in Woofers post, have to be specified or ruled upon by the committee in standard strokeplay team events or Am/Ams?
Surely they don’t have to rule exactly which rules are applicable and which are not from the whole rule book?
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Who are you expecting to document such a list, given that the rules makers do not recognise the formats?
rulie
Head Pro
Rule 24 covers "teams".
24.1:
A "team" is a group of player who play as individuals or as sides to compete against other teams.
Rules 1-23 apply in a team competition, as modified by these specific Rules.
24.4c:
Except when playing together as partners on a side:
- A player must not ask for advice from or give advice to a member of their team playing on the course.
You will have to determine if you are playing as a "team" or as "partners".
24.1:
A "team" is a group of player who play as individuals or as sides to compete against other teams.
Rules 1-23 apply in a team competition, as modified by these specific Rules.
24.4c:
Except when playing together as partners on a side:
- A player must not ask for advice from or give advice to a member of their team playing on the course.
You will have to determine if you are playing as a "team" or as "partners".
Steven Rules
Well-known member
The Rules cover individual formats, plus foursomes and four-ball. Anything else - e.g. scramble, best 2 of 4, etc - is not covered by the Rules and, in an ideal world, Committee intervention and clarification is required.
From a Rules perspective, terms like 'team' and 'pairs' get thrown around a bit too loosely for my liking.
What is a 'standard stroke play team event'? Rule 24 provides a number of pointers as to where Committee guidance is required for genuine team events. I don't think there would be such a thing as a 'standard'.
In my humble opinion, players in a best 2 of 4 format (or a scramble) are competing as a side, not as a team.
For the novelty 'side' events such as best 2 of 4, scramble, etc the Committee should provide clarity to overcome any ambiguity or on where deviation from the Rules is permitted (e.g. standing in the restricted area, playing a stroke with a ball marker in place, advice etc )
Or the Committee could just ignore all this, let the people have fun, and deal later with the aftermath of different sides doing their own thing.
From a Rules perspective, terms like 'team' and 'pairs' get thrown around a bit too loosely for my liking.
What is a 'standard stroke play team event'? Rule 24 provides a number of pointers as to where Committee guidance is required for genuine team events. I don't think there would be such a thing as a 'standard'.
In my humble opinion, players in a best 2 of 4 format (or a scramble) are competing as a side, not as a team.
For the novelty 'side' events such as best 2 of 4, scramble, etc the Committee should provide clarity to overcome any ambiguity or on where deviation from the Rules is permitted (e.g. standing in the restricted area, playing a stroke with a ball marker in place, advice etc )
Or the Committee could just ignore all this, let the people have fun, and deal later with the aftermath of different sides doing their own thing.
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Steven Rules
Well-known member
I did read a good article once on Rules aspects for a Committee to consider when setting up a scramble event, but the website seems to have been taken down. If I ever see it again somewhere else, I'll share the link on this forum.
D-S
Well-known member
As these are really common forms of competition in most golf clubs (hardly what are termed as ‘novelty events) that are held on a very regular basis, the ‘
who cares it’s not real golf anyway’ attitude is not of great help for volunteers attempting to run competitions in good faithI take it from the replies that committees really only need to advise players on this where the ruling deviates from formats covered in the rules.
Steven Rules
Well-known member
Correct. There are probably a dozen or so 'standard' headings that need to be covered. The obvious proviso is that the higher the stakes, the more codification and scrutiny is required.
salfordlad
Well-known member
As a number of commenters note, the organisers of team competitions are left to their own devices in applying the Rules of Golf to their competition. Formats are diverse from serious elite events, where any variations from the normal rules will be very clearly specified (Ryder Cup, President's Cup etc) to the local 'hit and giggle' scramble type stuff. So your answers, if they exist, will be in the Terms of the Competiton.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Yes.. Steven has already commended the same sort of approach as I would recommend to anyone writing the rules for their scrambles, greemsomes and any other unrecognised format. Write down "The Rules of Golf apply with the following exceptions........" and then list the exceptions.As these are really common forms of competition in most golf clubs (hardly what are termed as ‘novelty events) that are held on a very regular basis, the ‘
I take it from the replies that committees really only need to advise players on this where the ruling deviates from formats covered in the rules.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
I know this is an old thread that I am writing in, but I read them occasionally to help me learn the rules, which I’m no expert on, but as savvy as most at our club
Re the above. - Having read posts 5 and 6, I then understood that the rule was breached as soon as the putter took his stance ( one foot was mentioned as taking stance?)
It did occur to me then, that if there was an occasion where the putter took his stance before the other chap had chance to move, then both then realising they were in danger of breaking the rule if he went ahead and putted, and so moving away to line up again,would be too late. Which would be really horrendous.
But these answers didn’t seem to make it clear….
Is it stance or stroke?
This is hypothetical in that I personally would not invoke a penalty at all if I was in a match and this happened. If I saw such assistance given by my opponents, the most I would do would be afterwards to give a quiet word of advice for future reference.
Anyone wanting to win a hole by demanding a penalty is iffy, in my book.
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