Match Play - Rules & Tips

[backwoodsman]

I havn't read the rule and cant be arsed to so I'll 'ask the experts'.....what about me saying 'there is a ditch at 250 that with todays breeze you can reach no bother' or 'the bunker is reachable with driver'??

Surely that is what Pants says I cannot do?What is the difference between that and a line of a putt? Nowt...

If so I am afraid I will continue to be curteous and point these out to my opponents til someone claims a hole off me!

Saying "there's a ditch at 250 yards" is fine - matters of distance are public knowledge and therefore not advice.

Saying "you can reach the bunker with a driver" is questionable - but presupposes you know things about their ability with various clubs.

Saying "I wouldn't use a driver - you'll reach the bunker" is definitely advice.

 

[Dodger]

Well I have been busting rules for years as have many I play against!

 

[Dodger]

And another thing I have never understood is this 'public knowledge' crap.....it is hardly public knowledge if you aint played there before or have a yardage chart/gps is it??!!

 

[Pants]

And another thing I have never understood is this 'public knowledge' crap.....it is hardly public knowledge if you aint played there before or have a yardage chart/gps is it??!!

I gather that there has been a bit of interest in something Tiger Woods has done recently zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Personally I haven't read anything about it. So are you saying it's hardly public knowledge then - just because I haven't read it ??

The fact is that the information is there should you wish to avail yourself of it.

 

[Imurg]

And another thing I have never understood is this 'public knowledge' crap.....it is hardly public knowledge if you aint played there before or have a yardage chart/gps is it??!!

But its knowledge that is available to the public should they wish to take advantage of it. The line of a putt - well most of us get it wrong so that's not going to be public knowledge.

 

[Dodger]

You can argue a putt line is public knowledge....It is there for all to see.

 

[Ethan]

If something is a matter of fact, it is not usually advice. (Wind strength and slope affecting distance excepted)

If something is a matter of opinion, it is usually advice.

There is also a grey area between. You can't hit that wedge 200 yards is an opinion, but may also be a fact.

 

[Robobum]

You can't hit that wedge 200 yards is an opinion, but may also be a fact.

Don't start that one Ethan, all the 24 handicappers will be on here saying they can hit a wedge 200yds.......it's their putting that lets them down and keeps their handicap high!!

 

[Ethan]

You can argue a putt line is public knowledge....It is there for all to see.

A putt line is not a matter of fact, it is a matter of judgement and opinion. There are a range of different combinations of line and speed that could make many putts.

Whether there is a bunker to the side of that green or whether it is 220 yards to carry that stream are not matters of opinion or judgement.

 

[JustOne]

A putt line is not a matter of fact, it is a matter of judgement and opinion. There are a range of different combinations of line and speed that could make many putts.

Got to disagree, if you're looking over a 20foot putt with a severe left to right break then it's a FACT that it's going to break right... it is also a FACT that an uphill putt is not a down hill putt Therefore would it not be right in saying there must be opinions that you could offer that would be factual eg: "this ones coming from the left" or "don't forget to hit it a bit firmer up the slope"

 

[Ethan]

A putt line is not a matter of fact, it is a matter of judgement and opinion. There are a range of different combinations of line and speed that could make many putts.

Got to disagree, if you're looking over a 20foot putt with a severe left to right break then it's a FACT that it's going to break right... it is also a FACT that an uphill putt is not a down hill putt Therefore would it not be right in saying there must be opinions that you could offer that would be factual eg: "this ones coming from the left" or "don't forget to hit it a bit firmer up the slope"

OK, disagree if you like, but you are wrong.

I think the reasonable reader would read this "debate" to mean that someone who said that the line is about 2 balls outside the right, or whatever, is clearly giving advice. However, although telling a player playing from the valley of Sin to the 18th green at St Andrews that the putt is uphill probably does not tell them something they do not know, telling them to hit it a bit harder IS advice, because it tells someone how to do something, even if blindingly obvious.

R&A definition of advice: "Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice.

 

[JustOne]

OK, disagree if you like, but you are wrong.

I think the reasonable reader would read this "debate" to mean that someone who said that the line is about 2 balls outside the right, or whatever, is clearly giving advice.

Am I right in determining that you are suggesting that I am an unreasonable reader? If so then that's just plain FUNNY

However, although telling a player playing from the valley of Sin to the 18th green at St Andrews that the putt is uphill probably does not tell them something they do not know

So saying "don't forget it's uphill" is OK?

Personally I'd rather no one spoke at all on the greens but I'm trying to determine what is right and wrong so I can pick up and walk to the next hole when my mate opens his big gob as per usual. It would be unlikely that I would ever face an uphill putt without these words of wisdom spouting from aforementioned gob

I'd be interested to know your take on the concept of offering wrong advice.... for example when you're lining up a left to right putt and someone chips in with "about a foot outside the right!" when it's clearly going to be a ball outside left.

 

[Ethan]

So saying "don't forget it's uphill" is OK?

Personally I'd rather no one spoke at all on the greens but I'm trying to determine what is right and wrong so I can pick up and walk to the next hole when my mate opens his big gob as per usual. It would be unlikely that I would ever face an uphill putt without these words of wisdom spouting from aforementioned gob

I'd be interested to know your take on the concept of offering wrong advice.... for example when you're lining up a left to right putt and someone chips in with "about a foot outside the right!" when it's clearly going to be a ball outside left.

Strictly speaking "don't forget its uphill" is advice because the implication is that a harder shot or putt is needed. The fact it is bloody obvious is irrelevant. Anyone may indicate the line of a shot (except on a green), but uphill or downhill is not that.

If your mate tells you it is a foot from the left because he is half blind or has no idea, that is still advice, even if it is totally wrong. If he deliberately offers wrong advice (or knowingly offers incorrect information) in a non-joking manner with the intention to mislead, I think that could be a serious breach of etiquette punishable by disqualification (Rule 33-7).

 

[JustOne]

If your mate tells you it is a foot from the left because he is half blind or has no idea, that is still advice, even if it is totally wrong. If he deliberately offers wrong advice (or knowingly offers incorrect information) in a non-joking manner with the intention to mislead, I think that could be a serious breach of etiquette punishable by disqualification (Rule 33-7).

To be honest I haven't played against him in what I'd consider a 'proper' match. I don't know what his demeanour would be like in such circumstances but it's good to know what is right/wrong and what the consequences are. The only part I'm not sure about is what is the measure of 'joking'? Does a smile mean that he hasn't put you off? or made you think about something unnecessarily?

 

[Ethan]

If your mate tells you it is a foot from the left because he is half blind or has no idea, that is still advice, even if it is totally wrong. If he deliberately offers wrong advice (or knowingly offers incorrect information) in a non-joking manner with the intention to mislead, I think that could be a serious breach of etiquette punishable by disqualification (Rule 33-7).

To be honest I haven't played against him in what I'd consider a 'proper' match. I don't know what his demeanour would be like in such circumstances but it's good to know what is right/wrong and what the consequences are. The only part I'm not sure about is what is the measure of 'joking'? Does a smile mean that he hasn't put you off? or made you think about something unnecessarily?

Hard to say. It is a Committee decision. Another example of the same penalty is where a player deliberately deflects a ball in play. Same sanction can apply. The Committee would have to consider the circumstances and the effect of the bad advice.

 

[bobmac]

Another rule I'm sure is broken regularily in golf is ...
Player A is playing against Player B in match play.
Par 3
Player A hits his shot which lands on the green.
As he steps aside to allow player B to hit his shot he says
"wow, I haven't hit my 6 iron that well in ages"
Player B smiles and moves onto the next hole.

 

[Robobum]

Another rule I'm sure is broken regularily in golf is ...
Player A is playing against Player B in match play.
Par 3
Player A hits his shot which lands on the green.
As he steps aside to allow player B to hit his shot he says
"wow, I haven't hit my 6 iron that well in ages"
Player B smiles and moves onto the next hole.

Depends whether the comment was aimed at his opponent or just said "casually" Bob. (Not sure how you determine that though??! )

 

[bobmac]

If he says it loud enough for player B to hear it, then it's giving advice, loss of hole.
If however he merely drops a 6 iron head cover on the grass, thats not giving advice.
It is a bit sneaky if he has just hit a 4 iron with a 6 iron headcover on it

P.S.
Dont you guys with iron covers even think about switching your covers round in the upcoming winter knock out.

 

[USER1999]

No, because I would never remember, and end up hitting the wrong club. It is bad enough with the just usual 6 / 9 conundrum.

 

[Robobum]

If he says it loud enough for player B to hear it, then it's giving advice, loss of hole.

Hmmm, not sure that just because it's audible that it becomes a penalty Bob??

The decision says "If the statement was made casually, there was no breach. If the statement was made to another player who had a shot to play from about the same position, there was a breach."


If anyone is using iron covers it should be loss of hole anyway