Match Play - Rules & Tips

[ShriekingSheet]

@ Pants - Read what you just posted. Where does it back up what you said earlier?

You pulled me up earlier, saying...

"Again, read the rules. There is provision for finishing out the hole to both your and your opponent's understanding and get it sorted when you get back to the clubhouse."

You're wrong here. You can't finish a hole according to both understandings in Match Play and sort it out later. Your confusing it with Stroke Play where you can do so.

It's a bit much to say to someone "read the rules" and then get the rule wrong yourself.

 

[DCB]

C'mon Gents, t'is the season of goodwill to all men. Lets agree to differ on this one.

 

[Robobum]

....... You can simply declare it lost before looking, and play the provisional from the middle of the fairway......

Should this be in the quirky made up rules that are played between mates thread??

You need THIS and THIS then tell them to enjoy it.

Robobum, no need for the smart reply, and as Imurg says, of course you can declare a ball lost at any time.

If you couldn't, people would have to look for every ball in every kind of terrain for the full 5 minutes, before it became automatically lost as per the rules!

Which of course is not the case. Where the ball is in play but obviously has little chance of being found, guys usually have a quick scour for the first ball, but after a couple of minutes will sensibly say "not to worry guys, I'll continue with the second ball".

You obviouly know your rules, and you worried me by pulling me up on that, but I have to say I think you're off the mark. What do you think?

I was trying to make light of your error Sheet hence the smiley, I could have just been straight to the point and said "NO, that is not the rule and you are wrong" if that's what you prefer??

The rest of your post I have quoted above is wrong, wrong and wrong again

As Imurg said, he know's that a ball CANNOT be declared lost but it is your action of putting another ball in play (without declaring it a provisional) that renders it (effectively) lost.

There is nothing that says you HAVE to search for 5mins before putting another ball in play.

They should only be saying "I'll continue with the 2nd ball" if they have declared that 2nd ball as a provisional in the first place. Once they play that 2nd ball from a point nearer to the hole than where the 1st ball was lost it becomes the ball in play.

Sorry if you view this reply as "smart" but you asked for advice on an aide memoire to give to your team however the notes you quoted were incorrect. IMHO it would be better to get it right in the first instance than have some embarassing situations out on the course.

 

[sneakyweeone]

Sadly this whole thread shows the weakness of golf:too many rules for a game which should be simple hit the ball a few times and get it in the hole.

 

[ShriekingSheet]

I was trying to make light of your error Sheet hence the smiley, I could have just been straight to the point and said "NO, that is not the rule and you are wrong" if that's what you prefer??

The rest of your post I have quoted above is wrong, wrong and wrong again

As Imurg said, he know's that a ball CANNOT be declared lost but it is your action of putting another ball in play (without declaring it a provisional) that renders it (effectively) lost.

There is nothing that says you HAVE to search for 5mins before putting another ball in play.

They should only be saying "I'll continue with the 2nd ball" if they have declared that 2nd ball as a provisional in the first place. Once they play that 2nd ball from a point nearer to the hole than where the 1st ball was lost it becomes the ball in play.

Sorry if you view this reply as "smart" but you asked for advice on an aide memoire to give to your team however the notes you quoted were incorrect. IMHO it would be better to get it right in the first instance than have some embarassing situations out on the course.

Your hung up on the "declare it lost" phrase I used - which is irrelevent to my point, and admittedly a poor choice of words.

The fact is, if your ball goes somewhere you'd rather not find it, and you have a good provisional in place, it can be a good (legal) approach not to look for the original. I fully accept your point that speaking the words does not make your ball lost - but by not looking for it, in reality, you are declaring the ball lost.

I'm just being practical here and you're complicating things unecessarily with the details of the rules, though technically correct, don't really affect the scenario**. So there's my point simplified, how is that wrong, wrong and wrong again?

I'll throw another permiatation into the debate

The same original ball into helpless jungle. The provisional this time, hooks slightly and ends up behind a tree with no route to the green.
In this case, I would spend all 5 mins looking for the original ball, as finding it would give me the opportunity to replay 3 from the tee (accepting the premise that either dropping option will not suffice to get out of trouble). As the provisional is in bad shape, finding the first ball and having another crack at it in three is a good option.

As opposed to our first scenario, where the provisional was down the fairway and to go back to the tee would be to risk ending up somewhere worse.

Good debate so far. I'm new to the forum so apologies if I misread your tone.


**unless your opponent wants to run off into the woods to find your ball for you

 

[SammmeBee]

I match play (proper type as Shreiking is talking about) - I would not bother with the provisional, go look for the ball, then if you can't find it walk back to the tee and leave your opponent twiddling his thumbs in the middle of the fairway....

I don't think the English (of which I am one) on here have an understanding on how serious the GUI cup competitions are taken in Ireland, with practice rounds, uniforms, caddies, hotels all being paid for by the club - there is nothing to compare in the UK really....

 

[DCB]

**unless your opponent wants to run off into the woods to find your ball for you

Well since it's matchplay, if I was your opponent, I'd certainly have a look for it if I'd got a line on it as it entered the boondai

 

[ShriekingSheet]

**unless your opponent wants to run off into the woods to find your ball for you

Well since it's matchplay, if I was your opponent, I'd certainly have a look for it if I'd got a line on it as it entered the boondai

Haha, as I mentioned earlier, it'd be a race from the tee to see if I could strike my fourth before you could find the ball! That's why golfers originally wore sprinters spikes you know

 

[ShriekingSheet]

I match play (proper type as Shreiking is talking about) - I would not bother with the provisional, go look for the ball, then if you can't find it walk back to the tee and leave your opponent twiddling his thumbs in the middle of the fairway....

I don't think the English (of which I am one) on here have an understanding on how serious the GUI cup competitions are taken in Ireland, with practice rounds, uniforms, caddies, hotels all being paid for by the club - there is nothing to compare in the UK really....

Well rules-is-rules, but yeah I had a feeling that was the case in the UK (I posted in the lounge forum). It is great to pull on the club colours and very cool that anyone of almost any level can compete.
One of the biggest ones is a knock-out foursomes matchplay, 5 pairs, 3 matches home and 2 away, or vice versa. The great thing is, it's minium combined of 14 (no shots give). So you can have a +2 & 16, playing a 6 & 8 in a match. Really inclusive and interesting stuff.

 

[Robobum]

Sorry Sheet, you obviously never explained yourself very well in the previous posts and didn't intend things to be read as you had written them. You seem to be happy with you knowledge of the rules and hopefully you will be able to explain them to your team a little better than on here.

Is golf the only sport where you can be accused of "complicating things unecessarily with the details of the rules"??? I mean Thierry Henry "only" used one hand, so "technically" it was handball but come on, lets not bog things down with the rules!!

 

[ShriekingSheet]

Sorry Sheet, you obviously never explained yourself very well in the previous posts and didn't intend things to be read as you had written them. You seem to be happy with you knowledge of the rules and hopefully you will be able to explain them to your team a little better than on here.

Is golf the only sport where you can be accused of "complicating things unecessarily with the details of the rules"??? I mean Thierry Henry "only" used one hand, so "technically" it was handball but come on, lets not bog things down with the rules!!

Oooh... below the belt!

 

[Robobum]

Oooh... below the belt!

Haha, yeah probably a little!!

The subject of playing to the rules is a fairly common theme on here and you'd be amazed at how many people are adamant that they are fair and play to the rules but then say that if they were pulled up by an opponent on certain rules they would storm off the course and not play with them.

IMHO, if you want to give your team some advice tell them to read the rule book. Or if, as you say, there are rules officials at these matches, don't proceed until they have given them the ruling. As is evident from this thread, what you know and how that is communicated to others can cause added confusion.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

OK to sum this up as I see it. This event is a pretty full on inter-club thing with team outfits, match officials, caddies the lot and do any ruling can be given pretty quickly (and hopefully correctly) by the desiganted official. The OP wants to give ot a team sheet explaining some of the more common misconceptions.

Initially I thought it a bad idea but seeing how the thread has developed and how easily peoples understaning and intepretation of the rules vary it makes perfect sense. It threatened to get silly for a while but I think common sense has prevailed but it does highlight again the need to be so careful with the rules.

 

[JustOne]

Haha, as I mentioned earlier, it'd be a race from the tee to see if I could strike my fourth before you could find the ball! That's why golfers originally wore sprinters spikes you know

Am I right in thinking if your initial shot went 250y and your provisional only went 249y then if you hit it again it still remains your provisional as it hasn't gone past your initial ball.... if it's 251y then you're right, when you play it will become your active ball.

 

[justhitthething]

Haha, as I mentioned earlier, it'd be a race from the tee to see if I could strike my fourth before you could find the ball! That's why golfers originally wore sprinters spikes you know

Am I right in thinking if your initial shot went 250y and your provisional only went 249y then if you hit it again it still remains your provisional as it hasn't gone past your initial ball.... if it's 251y then you're right, when you play it will become your active ball.

Yes and as your opponent if Id hit my drive 248yds, you wouldnt hit your provisional until Id searched for 5 minutes for your first ball, as it aint your turn.
A team rule sheet is an awful idea. Its clear from above that the rules are often missinterpreted. I would prefer to get my advice from the R & A than from a sheet that some well meaning yet misguided team member has written.

 

[ShriekingSheet]

@ Justhitthething

An awful idea? Misguided?

Surely this thread shows how necessary it is?

And as for "misguided", every point I made in the OP has held up, despite minute dissection. There was confusion, admittedly, because I used the wrong wording for one, but that's a minor tweak (and a learning I'll gladly take on board).

How many people here can say hand-on-heart that they knew you cannot finish a hole with two balls when unsure of a rule in match play, but you can in stroke play? Pants had this wrong. And assuming by his telling me to "read the rules" he's someone who feels he knows the rules well.

We all get rules wrong at different times. And I think threads like this, or a couple of notes distributed among a team are a great idea to reduce confusion. As we all know, it's not so much the black & white of the rules that can turn a game, but if there's confusion, dispute and frustration on the course, even if you get the right outcome, you can be left put-off your game completely. Which is what I'd like to avoid.

 

[viscount17]

Matchplay Quiz Rule 2-2
Player A holes out for a 4. Player B has a putt for a half. Player A tells player B that the putt is just inside the left edge. Player B does not need to take his putt as the hole is halved.

Answer is True

- Why?

 

[Pants]

8-1 A Loss of hole for giving advice

 

[viscount17]

thank you

 

[Pants]

Sorry Viscount. Something wrong here.

I was thinking of.. if A asks for advice from B, it is irrelevant whether B gives advice because A lost the hole as soon as he asked.

In your scenario I can't see why the hole should be halved. My interpretation would be that, as a player must not give advice to his opponent, A would be in breach of the rules for giving unsolicited advice - therefore loss of hole in matchplay or 2 shot penalty in stroke play.

Confused of Croydon