Match play gamesmanship

r0wly86

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as for the OP

it absolutely sounds like a deliberate ploy, and not a subtle one either, if they had taken a second, checked the ball they are standing at then said something then fair enough, but to immediately say something means they knew all along

there is no penalty, but I would say it goes against Rule 1.2 spirit of the game
 

Hobbit

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I’m not sure I’ve experienced any out and out gamesmanship. Some poor manners, yes. Was it gamesmanship? Probably. I just tend to smile ruefully at that sort of thing. If they’re thinking about those sort of antics, they’re not concentrating on their game. At that point I know they’re going to lose.
 
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I remember the last comp I ever played.... me and a 13 year old lad and a guy in his 60s, round at Hever Castle. The young lad took his drive and hooked it into bushes down the left hand side, he then said that he'd take another and hit an ok shot into to fairway. We all got to the green and holed out, at which point the older guy announced that as the young lad didn't declare it a provisional he could either NR the rest of his round or he'd report him and have his disqualified.

This was the week after I'd played a comp and my other two PPs were walking down the fairway with their rule books open arguing about a ruling.

I haven't hit a single competition shot since and never will.... I dont have the time to waste my life spending hours every weekend with people who act like this, let alone seeming to enjoy reducing kids to tears or arguing over rules.
 

r0wly86

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I remember the last comp I ever played.... me and a 13 year old lad and a guy in his 60s, round at Hever Castle. The young lad took his drive and hooked it into bushes down the left hand side, he then said that he'd take another and hit an ok shot into to fairway. We all got to the green and holed out, at which point the older guy announced that as the young lad didn't declare it a provisional he could either NR the rest of his round or he'd report him and have his disqualified.

This was the week after I'd played a comp and my other two PPs were walking down the fairway with their rule books open arguing about a ruling.

I haven't hit a single competition shot since and never will.... I dont have the time to waste my life spending hours every weekend with people who act like this, let alone seeming to enjoy reducing kids to tears or arguing over rules.

did the young lad find his original and play that one? If he played the one in the fairway then he doesn't need to declare it a provisional.

Honestly I hate people like that old guy
 

Neilds

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I remember the last comp I ever played.... me and a 13 year old lad and a guy in his 60s, round at Hever Castle. The young lad took his drive and hooked it into bushes down the left hand side, he then said that he'd take another and hit an ok shot into to fairway. We all got to the green and holed out, at which point the older guy announced that as the young lad didn't declare it a provisional he could either NR the rest of his round or he'd report him and have his disqualified.

This was the week after I'd played a comp and my other two PPs were walking down the fairway with their rule books open arguing about a ruling.

I haven't hit a single competition shot since and never will.... I dont have the time to waste my life spending hours every weekend with people who act like this, let alone seeming to enjoy reducing kids to tears or arguing over rules.
Not sure why either of these were given as options - surely the young lad could have just put down his score as the total counting from 3 off the tee? Did you point this out at the time?
 
D

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did the young lad find his original and play that one? If he played the one in the fairway then he doesn't need to declare it a provisional.

Honestly I hate people like that old guy
No he didn't find the original...but to be honest by the time the guy had reduced a child to tears the last thing we were interested in was playing golf. Bear in mind this was about 12 years ago and it still grinds my gears.

Not sure why either of these were given as options - surely the young lad could have just put down his score as the total counting from 3 off the tee? Did you point this out at the time?

It was 12 years ago, I dont remember the exact conversation.... all I remember is a child in tears on the course and a miserable git very happy with himself.
 
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did the young lad find his original and play that one? If he played the one in the fairway then he doesn't need to declare it a provisional.

Honestly I hate people like that old guy
Unfortunately, golf has more than it’s fair share of this type of person.
 

Old Colner

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I remember the last comp I ever played.... me and a 13 year old lad and a guy in his 60s, round at Hever Castle. The young lad took his drive and hooked it into bushes down the left hand side, he then said that he'd take another and hit an ok shot into to fairway. We all got to the green and holed out, at which point the older guy announced that as the young lad didn't declare it a provisional he could either NR the rest of his round or he'd report him and have his disqualified.

This was the week after I'd played a comp and my other two PPs were walking down the fairway with their rule books open arguing about a ruling.

I haven't hit a single competition shot since and never will.... I dont have the time to waste my life spending hours every weekend with people who act like this, let alone seeming to enjoy reducing kids to tears or arguing over rules.
You do know not all golfers are like this? yes, every club has one or two but they tend to play with the same people every week as everybody else knows to avoid them, surely you can find within your membership somebody to play with and enjoy competition golf again.
 
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You do know not all golfers are like this? yes, every club has one or two but they tend to play with the same people every week as everybody else knows to avoid them, surely you can find within your membership somebody to play with and enjoy competition golf again.

unfortunately I found far too many like this (albeit not to this level) and I'd rather spend 5hrs + without this kind of aggro.
 

r0wly86

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No he didn't find the original...but to be honest by the time the guy had reduced a child to tears the last thing we were interested in was playing golf. Bear in mind this was about 12 years ago and it still grinds my gears.



It was 12 years ago, I dont remember the exact conversation.... all I remember is a child in tears on the course and a miserable git very happy with himself.
so not only was he a total arse, who was picking on a child, he didn't even know the rules
 

evemccc

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the art of winning games by using various ploys and tactics to gain a psychological advantage.
"the negotiations were primarily exercises in propaganda and gamesmanship"


I would say that is absolutely gamesmanship, gamesmanship being anything legal that gives you an advantage over an opponent.

If you try and change someone's pace of play, because you think it'll give you an advantage then by the definition that is gamesmanship

My own view - which I accept is not shared by everyone - is that gamesmanship is generally akin to cheating


My main Q tho is how does a matchplay pair regulate their pace of play if they are within the bounds of acceptable speed but one player is trying to speed up the other, whether through deliberate gamesmanship or just because that player prefers going faster than the other player?
 

Neilds

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I find it hard to believe (and very sad) that some people are so desperate to get their name on a board/win a trophy/get some pro shop credit that they even think about some of the 'tactics' mentioned in this thread. Some people need to grow up and stop acting like children - even though golf is just a game (however hard some people find this concept)
 

r0wly86

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My own view - which I accept is not shared by everyone - is that gamesmanship is generally akin to cheating


My main Q tho is how does a matchplay pair regulate their pace of play if they are within the bounds of acceptable speed but one player is trying to speed up the other, whether through deliberate gamesmanship or just because that player prefers going faster than the other player?

It's been a while, but I did study this in GCSE PE

Gamesmanship while frowned upon by most is not as far as cheating, which is where a player has broken the rules.

There's no penalty for gamesmanship, even if you admit to it, not like cheating where there would normally be a penalty.

So for the pace of play, it would come down to intent, if one person or pair is trying to do something with the intention of gaining a psychological advantage then that is gamesmanship, if it's just two sides like to play at different paces then that is life.


I think gamesmanship can really push the limits of cheating, but doesn't cross it
 

evemccc

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It's been a while, but I did study this in GCSE PE

Gamesmanship while frowned upon by most is not as far as cheating, which is where a player has broken the rules.

There's no penalty for gamesmanship, even if you admit to it, not like cheating where there would normally be a penalty.

So for the pace of play, it would come down to intent, if one person or pair is trying to do something with the intention of gaining a psychological advantage then that is gamesmanship, if it's just two sides like to play at different paces then that is life.


I think gamesmanship can really push the limits of cheating, but doesn't cross it

Regardless, the one time it happened to me in a golf match I thought, and still think now, that the opponent was very likely a complete ‘pillock’ (in truth, a much stronger pejorative term) and if it happens another time then I will think the same — and if it is someone at my club in a pretty meaningless K/O matchplay game then I will have no compunction in telling all and sundry what I think
 

r0wly86

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Regardless, the one time it happened to me in a golf match I thought, and still think now, that the opponent was very likely a complete ‘pillock’ (in truth, a much stronger pejorative term) and if it happens another time then I will think the same — and if it is someone at my club in a pretty meaningless K/O matchplay game then I will have no compunction in telling all and sundry what I think

That is absolutely the correct way to deal with too. If you directly call it out it loses any intended effect and actually makes them look silly
 
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I love it when others try some gamesmanship in match play. Ignoring it is great fun.

If it gets a bit much, then doing the opposite to make it obvious you’re aware of what they are doing is extra fun.

I will never start the gamesmanship, but I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with joining in if someone is being a bit of a tit with it.

I except to hole out every putt. It’s something I do even when playing by myself. So my absolute favourite thing in match play is telling someone that we will be putting out no matter what the length of putt if they try mind games.
 

Hobbit

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It's been a while, but I did study this in GCSE PE

Gamesmanship while frowned upon by most is not as far as cheating, which is where a player has broken the rules.

There's no penalty for gamesmanship, even if you admit to it, not like cheating where there would normally be a penalty.

So for the pace of play, it would come down to intent, if one person or pair is trying to do something with the intention of gaining a psychological advantage then that is gamesmanship, if it's just two sides like to play at different paces then that is life.


I think gamesmanship can really push the limits of cheating, but doesn't cross it

Mmm, am I guilty of gamesmanship? If a player is playing faster than I usually do, am I guilty of gamesmanship by continuing to play at my own pace? In effect I’m ’forcing’ him to play at my pace. It’s not as though he can rush to play his ball first if it’s nearer the hole as, in match play, furthest away plays first. Equally, if he’s slower than I am I have no problem playing at his pace.

Is giving an easy gimme for several holes then giving nothing for a few holes gamesmanship? To me, that’s part of the game, and yes it is a mind game.
 

r0wly86

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Mmm, am I guilty of gamesmanship? If a player is playing faster than I usually do, am I guilty of gamesmanship by continuing to play at my own pace? In effect I’m ’forcing’ him to play at my pace. It’s not as though he can rush to play his ball first if it’s nearer the hole as, in match play, furthest away plays first. Equally, if he’s slower than I am I have no problem playing at his pace.

Is giving an easy gimme for several holes then giving nothing for a few holes gamesmanship? To me, that’s part of the game, and yes it is a mind game.

Depends entirely on your intent, if you are deliberately playing slower because you know it will give you advantage and upset their game, then yes.

If you are naturally slower and you have no intent of gaining advantage and it is just one of those things, then no.

Your final one is definitely gamesmanship, but on the lower end of the scale I would say. You are deliberately doing something to gain an advantage that is not against the rules, gamesmanship isn't always dirty tactics
 

chrisd

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I'd never say to an opponent at the start of a match that they will have to hole out every putt, for me, that makes it easy for them to get used to the idea before we even start, and it takes away the impact when I don't concede, say a 2 footer. But that isn't gamesmanship it's a part of the game
 

Neilds

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I love it when others try some gamesmanship in match play. Ignoring it is great fun.

If it gets a bit much, then doing the opposite to make it obvious you’re aware of what they are doing is extra fun.

I will never start the gamesmanship, but I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with joining in if someone is being a bit of a tit with it.

I except to hole out every putt. It’s something I do even when playing by myself. So my absolute favourite thing in match play is telling someone that we will be putting out no matter what the length of putt if they try mind games.
This is even more childish than the previous comments!
“He started it”
Pathetic
 
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