Martin McGuinness hero or villian?

[Lord Tyrion]

So it was ok to murder children (Warrington, Wildenrath) rather than using democracy?

And that is the crux of the matter. One side sees that, the other doesn't.

I grew up just a few miles from Warrington and was not much older than the two boys who were murdered. Tim Parry, the father of one of the boys, is a staggering man, amazing in his commitment to peace. I have no time for the honours system but if I did that man would get the biggest one I could give him.

 

[Kellfire]

One side sees that, the other doesn't.

Disagree entirely. It isn't that one sides see it and one doesn't; it's that one side (those for a realistic peace) want to move on from the mistakes of the past on BOTH sides and that involves swallowing MANY bitter pills for lasting peace.

The other side is more hung up on getting what they perceive as justice that they'd rather keep Northern Ireland living in the dark days, just to avoid "them 'uns" getting anything they want.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Disagree entirely. It isn't that one sides see it and one doesn't; it's that one side (those for a realistic peace) want to move on from the mistakes of the past on BOTH sides and that involves swallowing MANY bitter pills for lasting peace.

The other side is more hung up on getting what they perceive as justice that they'd rather keep Northern Ireland living in the dark days, just to avoid "them 'uns" getting anything they want.

So why are we chasing the Soldiers involved in The Bloody Sunday shootings, which side is after justice for that?

 

[Kellfire]

So why are we chasing the Soldiers involved in The Bloody Sunday shootings, which side is after justice for that?

Another issue I'm in two minds over; I tend to fall JUST on the side of those who want those soldiers held to account simply because the British government must be held to a higher standard than terrorists and it was they who abused their authority and power in the first place to cause the divide in the first place.

In an ideal world both sides would agree to move on and to stop the historic enquiries.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Another issue I'm in two minds over; I tend to fall JUST on the side of those who want those soldiers held to account simply because the British government must be held to a higher standard than terrorists and it was they who abused their authority and power in the first place to cause the divide in the first place.

In an ideal world both sides would agree to move on and to stop the historic enquiries.

I can see your side, for me it should be both sides coming clean or neither and we move on.
One of the terrorists freed after the Good Friday agreement had served 16 months of a 407yr sentence.
It seems to me we have different rules for both sides.

 

[Kellfire]

I can see your side, for me it should be both sides coming clean or neither and we move on.
One of the terrorists freed after the Good Friday agreement had served 16 months of a 407yr sentence.
It seems to me we have different rules for both sides.

Finding the balance is incredibly tough. My mum text me this morning and she amazed me by highlighting how McGuinness had turned his life around at the end. I expected her to be very much "Good riddance". If a bitter old unionist like my mum can see the light at the end of the dark tunnel, then I think we have a chance for lasting peace back home.

 

[Fish]

Villian & murderer, and I hope Adams joins him sooner rather than later. I've experienced both of them first hand a number of times, and as for comparing him to Mandela's fight, which I disagree with, why was he (McGuiness) ordering the deaths of those in INLA who were supposedly fighting for the same thing?

I never came back from 1 tour ( I did 3 in total) without the loss of 1 or more friends and at that time, other than INLA, nothing happened without his say-so.

So for me he was a terrorist and murderer of the highest order, nothing else IMO, and it sickened me when he shook the queen's hand.

How could you ever forgive or justify this

 

[Scoobiesnax]

Villian & murderer, and I hope Adams joins him sooner rather than later. I've experienced both of them first hand a number of times, and as for comparing him to Mandela's fight, which I disagree with, why was he (McGuiness) ordering the deaths of those in INLA who were supposedly fighting for the same thing?

I never came back from 1 tour ( I did 3 in total) without the loss of 1 or more friends and at that time, other than INLA, nothing happened without his say-so.

So for me he was a terrorist and murderer of the highest order, nothing else IMO, and it sickened me when he shook the queen's hand.

How could you ever forgive or justify this

View attachment 22289

I couldn't agree more......the man was evil; and at the end decided to repent to save his soul; good aulde Christian!!

The people in Northern Ireland still live in hatred or the DUP and Sinn Fein IRA wouldn't be the two biggest parties in the NI Assembly!

edit: The best way to repent was to come clean on what he had done in the past but alas he's taken that to the grave!

 

[Dellboy]

The man was evil and we are all better off now he has gone.

 

[User20205]

the problem is that, and maybe the major difference to South Africa, is that there hasn't been a truth and reconciliation process. That is why actions from the past are still relevant today, there has been no attempt at a healing process.

I'm not going to google it but both side have responsibility for the atrocities

 

[user2010]

Rot in Hell, scumbag.

 

[Old Skier]

Woke up this morning thinking there just might be a God. Man was never made to pay for his crimes and his sidekick during his time in command is now the prosecuter chasing members of the armed forces who have already gone through a full judicial process.

 

[Kellfire]

Woke up this morning thinking there just might be a God. Man was never made to pay for his crimes and his sidekick during his time in command is now the prosecuter chasing members of the armed forces who have already gone through a full judicial process.

So do you believe that Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams et al should be made to pay for their crimes but the armed forces shouldn't be held accountable for theirs? Both sides committed crimes, both lied about them but only one had the British Government helping to cover it up...

 

[Old Skier]

So do you believe that Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams et al should be made to pay for their crimes but the armed forces shouldn't be held accountable for theirs? Both sides committed crimes, both lied about them but only one had the British Government helping to cover it up...

Every round fired by a member of the armed forces was investigated and anyone who was injured or killed during an action had the benefit of a full judicial review which was more than those I had the displeasure to pack up in black body bags, most being innocent women and children.

Tell me were your information has come from that confirms that members of the armed forces lied.

I don't know if you are old enough or informed enough to know that we went in the protect and assist the Catholic population and was reasonably successful until McGinnes and his gangs realised he was about to lose his power base so decided on a rain of murder against a- mostly- civilian population.

 

[Kellfire]

Tell me were your information has come from that confirms that members of the armed forces lied.

It's well known that there were cover ups and collusion with paramilitaries, the armed forces and the government of the time.

 

[Old Skier]

It's well known that there were cover ups and collusion with paramilitaries, the armed forces and the government of the time.

If it well known let's see the reliable source or are you just going on unproved media reports.

If you have the proof the PSNI will be only to willing to receive it.

 

[Kellfire]

Multiple inquiries have shown collusion happened. I assume you're just trying to get a reaction.

 

[Old Skier]

No reaction required but I would like to finally point out that I am only responding to unfounded allegations being made on the thread about members of the armed forces. I am not interested in what coverups may have been sanctioned to protect terrorists or the government of the day.

 

[Hobbit]

As part of the peace process numerous proven murderers were released, and some not prosecuted at all.

And now soldiers are being hounded.

Adams is an hypocrit.

As for McGuinness; he's someone's son, husband and father and those people are suffering right now. I wish them comfort. But for Martin McGuinness...best not say.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Villian & murderer, and I hope Adams joins him sooner rather than later. I've experienced both of them first hand a number of times, and as for comparing him to Mandela's fight, which I disagree with, why was he (McGuiness) ordering the deaths of those in INLA who were supposedly fighting for the same thing?

I never came back from 1 tour ( I did 3 in total) without the loss of 1 or more friends and at that time, other than INLA, nothing happened without his say-so.

So for me he was a terrorist and murderer of the highest order, nothing else IMO, and it sickened me when he shook the queen's hand.

How could you ever forgive or justify this

View attachment 22289

You can forgive if you really want to. It is very difficult but you can. That does not mean that you forget.