Mark Crossfield At Taylor Made

[Foxholer]

The fact (in inverted comers) is that Mark gained about 10 yards carry from what i see from his many other videos. It did not top out too much more than any other so not getting up into the wind any more than his Nike or Ping. I have to confess to being intrigued.

As an aside, I wonder what shaft they put in that club as Mark usually used whatever stock shaft comes in the club he likes.

Presumably, it's the (low) spin - and is really just applying the (new) ball flight laws to a vertical perspective as opposed to a horizontal one! As well as the backspin being important to keeping the ball in the air, of course!

Probably also explains the phenomenon of PX iron shafts compared to DG - where flight supposedly starts on higher angle, but 'flatter' arc.

Shaft doesn't look anything 'special', though it's quite possible that they have some specials in TM colours there.

 

[mab]

I do note that no one seems to talk on this topic about decant angle and roll out......ne:

It's incorporated into TM's thinking on 17 / 1700; that combination tends to give top end carry and top end roll out.

For example, at my c.150mph ball speed and using the Flightscope Optimiser:

Launch/Spin | Carry | Total (soft) | Total (hard)

17/1700 | 254 | 262 | 293
14/3000 | 251 | 254 | 274 (previously thought to be best launch combo for c.150mph ballspeed)
12/1900 | 236 | 250 | 285 (per Trackman chart for c.150mph ballspeed and +5 AoA)
13/2600 | 248 | 254 | 278 (about the best launch combo I could achieve with my previous driver)

Probably worth noting that what used to be considered optimum took into account waht was considered tobe achievable, which I don't believe 17/1700 was... and still isn't (at least for the vast majority of people) with current technology.

 

[harpo_72]

word of warning. the Cleveland classic woods has a very closed face. if you have a tendency to hook the ball, stay well clear!

Do they? I had not noticed and I cannot find anything saying so ...

 

[Sybez]

A couple of points about the Crossfield vid/TM Loft up campaign...

Why didn't MC adjust his loft of his i25/Covert Tour 2.0 and do a comparison there and then?
The TM guy only touched upon the decent angle, peak height and said "on a dry/hard day you'll also get some roll blah blah" - Is that typical UK weather there hes describing?
Thats the hardest I've ever seen MC swing at the ball! Not much comparison on swing/ball speeds....?
What shaft length and flex was in the SLDR compared to what MC plays?

All this "loft up" is aimed at amateur golfers who chop down on their drivers like irons, with an "out to in" (slice) swing path and so put loads of spin on the ball... so TM make a low spin, high loft driver to compensate! Learn to hit up on the ball (i.e +2-5*'s) with driver and I bet the ball flys further.... save yourself a few hundred quid too!

Not even MC will stand there at Wentworth TM fitting bay and slag em off like usual....

 

[mab]

Not even MC will stand there at Wentworth TM fitting bay and slag em off like usual....

His numbers improved. Why would he???

 

[Alex1975]

Mab rather than reply with quotes your tables above: Thanks thats really interesting.

 

[Sybez]

Did they...? Where was the direct comparison there and then...

His numbers improved. Why would he???

 

[the_coach]

Over here some 18 - 12 months ago when this really first started to show light through studies that had begun to be carried out mostly by Trackman.

It was met with a fair deal of skepticism, from club teaching professionals and amateurs alike as 'everybody knew what they knew"!
Lately particularly as this was mainly kicked off in the recent months by TM a company known for fairly aggressive marketing claims and numerous product releases, and also because of what everybody mostly thought they knew about such things, it was a pretty major curve ball.

See that seems still pretty much the state of things happening in the debate in the UK now.

Recently we have been able to measure what happens during the swing itself, both player and club, and also at collision and the balls flight both much more accurately and over many more parameters of measurement.

Guess PGA pro's in the UK now starting to take it all a bit more seriously and starting to show results qualified by Launch Monitor numbers. (Everyone should take it seriously now, as over time it will show there are gains to be had for golfers of all standards, that's a surety, and not a magic trick.)

From the numbers I've observed personally on trackman, these following guides are true:

Any of the PGA Pro's looking at this and publishing numbers that they've found certain things will be the case, such as if they raise their Launch Angle by lofting up from what's been the average norm for 'better golfers" of 9.5, up to 10. 10.5 or above, and their dynamic loft and + AoA then is between 14 & 16 degrees (the higher launch windows I've both seen from others and experienced myself), their peak height will be between 36 & 43 yards with a spin rate between 1550 & 2200 as a norm range if struck from the slightly higher center sweet spot of the 460/430 driver head. i.e. a good strike.

The same Pro's using their more norm 'before' loft of 9.5 with what was looked at as optimum launch angle of between 11 & 13 degrees their peak height will be between 36 & 43 yards (there is no change) but these have a spin rate of between 2500 & 3500 as a norm range if struck similarly from the optimum sweet spot. i.e. a good strike.

Their club head speed thus ball speed would been their same norm numbers, the 3 things that changed being the LA, SR and distance.

As these differently launched and spinning balls would have had still the same amount of transfered energy from club head to ball, it's completely irrefutable that the higher launch + lower spin rates were not the cause of the increased carry and overall distance, they absolutely were, as nothing else changed.

As the peak height and descent angles (36 - 43 yards, 140-144 degrees in both cases) are the same, the higher launching ball will still at worst travel as far in rollout given similar ground conditions, in fact the higher launch ball which has the lower back spin rate rollout was in fact a bit further.

The higher launch lower spin drives produce the optimum longest carry and longest overall distances for the energy produced by collision. No question.

 

[Allanxyz]

MC has done two tests on the i25 (actually in three videos but one set of figures is copied) and there is a 7 yard difference between carry from each test 255 against 262. His average with the SLDR was 267... If he can manage a 7 yard difference between the same club on two different days then it doesn't say too much about the 5 yard difference to me.Spin is higher on i25, peak height is actually higher than SLDR... The higher the launch angle seemed to be the longer the i25 went... Don't know what would happen if he lofted up on the i25 even more....

 

[Foxholer]

Here's a good tool to work it out!

http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

[the_coach]

MC has done two tests on the i25 (actually in three videos but one set of figures is copied) and there is a 7 yard difference between carry from each test 255 against 262. His average with the SLDR was 267... If he can manage a 7 yard difference between the same club on two different days then it doesn't say too much about the 5 yard difference to me.Spin is higher on i25, peak height is actually higher than SLDR... The higher the launch angle seemed to be the longer the i25 went... Don't know what would happen if he lofted up on the i25 even more....

The two clubs have their CG's in different places, SLDR much further forward hence the lofts can be higher and still keep the spin rate down.
i25 made differently you can only put the loft up 0.5d, so maximum on a 9.5 of 10, and to date the highest loft you can buy in i25 is 10.5 so that would be 11 degs maximum.
You'd really need to test all lofts in both clubs to see which offers you the best 'numbers'.
Peak heights of both 9.5 & 10d i25 and a Sldr at 10.5 I tried on trackman were all in the same window between 36 & 43 yards descent angles much the same.

But I've found trying a 9.5 i25 set at 10 degs gave me a launch angle consistently of around 14 - 15.5 degs which gave me a bunch better 'numbers' carry and overall distance than it set at 9.5 with a launch between 11 -13 degs.

 

[mchacker]

A couple of points about the Crossfield vid/TM Loft up campaign...

All this "loft up" is aimed at amateur golfers who chop down on their drivers like irons, with an "out to in" (slice) swing path and so put loads of spin on the ball... so TM make a low spin, high loft driver to compensate! Learn to hit up on the ball (i.e +2-5*'s) with driver and I bet the ball flys further.... save yourself a few hundred quid too!

Mark did a video on this within the last 2yrs, surprised he didn't make reference to it http://youtu.be/CrbiWGHftgA

Our pro has been more or less telling people this for years, he carries a 12° driver and when someone comes to him struggling with their own driver he haz them try his without telling them anything about it, only after they flush it(which they all do) does he tell them why.