M25 protests

ColchesterFC

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Unfortunately the jails are full.

There is a way of addressing this but the peoples right campaigners would be in uproar if it was suggested.

Could make use of Boris's water cannons to get them down. :D



That was a joke by the way before anyone suggests that I'm in favour of going down there and giving them a beating.
 

Bunkermagnet

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It's obvious those protesting are never going to go to China, Indai or the like. But they could protest at the Chinese and Indian Embassy and stop their staff from getting out and about. I dont doubt most who are are inconvenienced are very sympathetic to trying to stop global warming, but we are in this country already taking steps, and unless those other countries are made to change their minds the situation won't improve enough.
We don't put the heating on and leave all the windows open, and closing just one or two windows wont help much when there are still enough left open to let the heat out.
 

4LEX

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I missed a tee time at Walton Heath due to these parasites recently.

A right to protest is fine but to disrupt the lives of normal people is domestic terrorism. No one is talking about having to protest in an empty field like someone suggested either. Town centres and city centres are perfect for visual protests.

These people should be locked up for years, end of story. The majority are students or retired wasters trying to relive their youth. Plus the usual gaggle of far left nutters jumping on a bandwagon to cause aggro. The Police are so weak and useless these days. I suspect most of the new recruits enjoy standing around on a motorway looking important rather than fighting real crime. Easy day dossing at the office for them so no incentive to end these protests early.

A member of the public will snap and seriously injure one of these clowns soon.
 

clubchamp98

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Put them under house arrest.
A judge could do that.
Tag them so they can’t go out at peak traffic times.

The police should remove them as soon as they can, the public expect the police to do their job, not stand around watching.
But courts must back them up.

Just a question to the ex cops .
“Do the police have the powers to remove them under the law as it stands ?”
 

Blue in Munich

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Just a question to the ex cops .
“Do the police have the powers to remove them under the law as it stands ?”

Reading this, I'd say this means they are committing an offence (it's not one I ever used as I'm 10 years out);

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2022/32/section/78/enacted

And this provides a power of arrest;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/15/part/3/crossheading/powers-of-arrest

As to the reasons why it's not happening, I fear my response would stray into an area of discussion sadly banned on here. All I would say to those saying it's embarrassing that police are not removing them or that police are not interested in dealing with them is that unless an awful lot has changed the rank and file of the service will share your anger & frustration.
 
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Swinglowandslow

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If by fascism you mean being overly authoritarian in their actions then there's an argument that this is the wrong way round.

The police officer has powers of arrest granted to him in law if he believes there is an offence being committed; the fact that it is potentially a journalist committing the offence is not, to my knowledge, grounds not to exercise the power of arrest. But if he reasonably believes the offence is being committed he is acting within the authority granted to him in law.

The citizens of this country have a right to pass & repass over the Queen's or King's highway enshrined in law, unless that has been suspended by order or officers exercising powers to close the road. Just Stop Oil have no authority to remove this free passage but have taken away the rights of the masses to pass & repass; to visit dying relatives; to go about their lawful business; to attend funerals; and stopping emergency services working. There is no negotiation with them, they have imposed their will on the rest of those wishing to use the road without any lawful power to do so.

Which of these actions sound more fascist?

For the record, I am grateful that we have the right to peaceful protest in this country & have defended its reasonable use many times. But I'm not prepared to defend Just Stop Oil/Insulate Britain/Extinction Rebellion when the manner of their protest has deprived so many ordinary citizens of their civil rights, and alienated much of the support that they had in the process.

Well said. As in bold, not enough importance given to some very awful consequences to this disruption that the supporters of these @#£@@ people choose not to think about.Or ,if they do, need to examine their moral compass.
 

Swingalot

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Unfortunately the jails are full.

There is a way of addressing this but the peoples right campaigners would be in uproar if it was suggested.

Fine them at a level relative to the cost to business and the economy they are chasing. My firm works on the m25 and if we are 15 minutes late on a road closure we get fined 15k and that is then pro-ratad every 15 minutes if we are still overrunning. Those fines are set at such a level as the m25 and in particular the dartford crossing is classed as 'critical infrastructure '.....which incidentaly is why the IRA tried to blow it up during the troubles.
 

clubchamp98

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Reading this, I'd say this means they are committing an offence (it's not one I ever used as I'm 10 years out);

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2022/32/section/78/enacted

And this provides a power of arrest;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/15/part/3/crossheading/powers-of-arrest

As to the reasons why it's not happening, I fear my response would stray into an area of discussion sadly banned on here. All I would say to those saying it's embarrassing that tpolice are not removing them or that police are not interested in dealing with them is that unless an awful lot has changed the rank and file of the service will share your anger & frustration.
Thanks for that.
It was answered in the first four lines.
So why do the police not move them.
The senior officers should clarify what’s going on.
 

Oddsocks

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Fine them at a level relative to the cost to business and the economy they are chasing. My firm works on the m25 and if we are 15 minutes late on a road closure we get fined 15k and that is then pro-ratad every 15 minutes if we are still overrunning. Those fines are set at such a level as the m25 and in particular the dartford crossing is classed as 'critical infrastructure '.....which incidentaly is why the IRA tried to blow it up during the troubles.

You could argue that the entire m25 is critical infrastructure when you look at the major towns and cities it connects and also the sheer volume of traffic it keeps outside of the London boroughs.
 

larmen

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In Germany about a week ago a cyclist got run over by a lorry. The fire department could not get specialist equipment to the accident scene because some people glued themselves to a road. They had to improvise the rescue. The lady died 3 days later in hospital? Is that what we want to happen here as well?
 

PNWokingham

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Without a doubt a good step, but in my opinion wind turbines and hydro mills work more efficient with our climate. Unfortunately the locals do not like the appearance of a wind turbine or hydro water mills on their local canal so this will never work.

on a recent trip to Cornwall me and the misses discussed this, great landscape that could have housed so many wind turbines to power local towns, unfortunately everyone would block them as it would ruin nice views.

I wonder if they’ll feel the same after this winters electric bills

it was a 1 minute rant as i was on my way to the pub. Had i done it when i got back it would not have been so nice! :p
 

road2ruin

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I would not put myself in the bracket of not being overly environmentally friendly, I have traditionally driven high powered cars that had appalling MPG's and I would be a frequent visitor to the local petrol station. I have recently got an electric car but that was more to do with saving myself a bundle of cash and being more tax efficient than wanting to save the world.

That said I am torn on this one as the frustration is that turning up outside Westminster etc with placards doesn't have any effect whatsoever and whilst I don't necessarily agree with the method and the disruption it causes I am not entirely sure what the alternative is. I live within a couple of minutes of Junction 9 on the M25 so it is one of the areas that is regularly targeted and whilst I don't tend to use the road when they protest our local area is gridlocked pretty quickly as people try and find alternative routes. Maybe I would view things differently if I had to use the M25 for work but I just plan accordingly when things get busy around here.

I believe we are rapidly approaching a tipping point and sadly I also believe that the protests etc won't make the blindest bit of difference and we are going to have to get used to living in a world where there are more extreme natural events and a lot of human displacement in the coming years as coastal areas find themselves under water. There are too many powerful people with a vested interest in not rushing through any immediate changes and by the point that they are ready it'll be too late. I would like to be wrong but seeing how things have worked over the last few years have done nothing to dissuade me from the view that they are only in it for themselves and the greater good is for others to worry about. Essentially we will just have to adapt to changing conditions and live here for as long as the place is habitable!

I was listening to the radio yesterday and there was an interesting counter argument being made against those who say that we should be protesting against China etc. China haven't signed up to the timelines for net zero etc that a lot of the world have however the point was made that the reason they haven't is that they have set a more realistic timescale to achieve it and when those deadlines arrive it is going to be the Chinese that are a lot closer to being there than other countries who have made ambitious claims but ultimately miss every one of them!

With regards the police arresting the reporter I think this is a timely reminder of why we shouldn't be considering giving them any further powers as they cannot be trusted with the ones that they have. The reporter, if minded, will sue and will win her case easily however it'll be us as tax payers that will pick up the bill due to the over zealousness of a couple of police officers who seemed to have little clue (or care) for dealing with members of the press.

Finally, on the lorry incident that injured a policeman, it was during a rolling road block. I would suggest that if a lorry driver cannot control their vehicle at very low speeds then they shouldn't be on our roads.
 
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Swinglowandslow

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No surprise when you see how many people are in the police force when they should have failed basic vetting checks.

When they applied there was a worldwide shortage of crystal balls for the Police to use?
Of these “ bad apples “, how many of them do you know of who had previous character attributes which were on record and available to the Police vetting procedures to which you refer…? Hmmm?

so, anyone who employs someone ,who then abuses that position, is the real villain of the situation are they?

Wobble your head.!
 

pauljames87

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I would not put myself in the bracket of being overly environmentally friendly, I have traditionally driven high powered cars that had appalling MPG's and I would be a frequent visitor to the local petrol station. I have recently got an electric car but that was more to do with saving myself a bundle of cash and being more tax efficient than wanting to save the world.

That said I am torn on this one as the frustration is that turning up outside Westminster etc with placards doesn't have any effect whatsoever and whilst I don't necessarily agree with the method and the disruption it causes I am not entirely sure what the alternative is. I live within a couple of minutes of Junction 9 on the M25 so it is one of the areas that is regularly targeted and whilst I don't tend to use the road when they protest our local area is gridlocked pretty quickly as people try and find alternative routes. Maybe I would view things differently if I had to use the M25 for work but I just plan accordingly when things get busy around here.

I believe we are rapidly approaching a tipping point and sadly I also believe that the protests etc won't make the blindest bit of difference and we are going to have to get used to living in a world where there are more extreme natural events and a lot of human displacement in the coming years as coastal areas find themselves under water. There are too many powerful people with a vested interest in not rushing through any immediate changes and by the point that they are ready it'll be too late. I would like to be wrong but seeing how things have worked over the last few years have done nothing to dissuade me from the view that they are only in it for themselves and the greater good is for others to worry about. Essentially we will just have to adapt to changing conditions and live here for as long as the place is habitable!

I was listening to the radio yesterday and there was an interesting counter argument being made against those who say that we should be protesting against China etc. China haven't signed up to the timelines for net zero etc that a lot of the world have however the point was made that the reason they haven't is that they have set a more realistic timescale to achieve it and when those deadlines arrive it is going to be the Chinese that are a lot closer to being there than other countries who have made ambitious claims but ultimately miss every one of them!

With regards the police arresting the reporter I think this is a timely reminder of why we shouldn't be considering giving them any further powers as they cannot be trusted with the ones that they have. The reporter, if minded, will sue and will win her case easily however it'll be us as tax payers that will pick up the bill due to the over zealousness of a couple of police officers who seemed to have little clue (or care) for dealing with members of the press.

Finally, on the lorry incident that injured a policeman, it was during a rolling road block. I would suggest that if a lorry driver cannot control their vehicle at very low speeds then they shouldn't be on our roads.

Hit the nail on the head with a lot of that. Infact all.

We seem past the point now of people making just small changes and it having a positive effect to reduce climate change, too many people in power pushing their own agendas than the facts.

Below being one of the worst in history
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62225696

Very good point about the Chinese however people will just beat the drum that it's all China's fault even when presented with the facts.

I don't agree with the methods but the protests have a valid point. We don't need more oil and gas licences we need alternatives .. but the money is in the right places for gas and oil.

It's disgusting.
 

ColchesterFC

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One big problem with blaming China is the amount of stuff they make for export to the rest of the world. It's fine for us to hit net zero but we're effectively "offshoring" our emissions to China by buying products from them.

It's the same as banning fracking in the UK while at the same time buying liquid gas from America by the boat load. All of that has come from fracking and has the added cost, and associated emissions, from shipping it over to us.
 
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