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Long par 3s

harpo_72 said:
I refuse to take driver at a par 3, it's an insult to one's manhood
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More fool you then!

I have no such qualms and have nearly had 2 HOIs with a Driver. One was 6 inches short (not enough club?) and the other hit the flag-stick and ended up 2 feet away. Birdied both so my nowt to do with manhood!

And St Andrews New 13th might only have been a 9 iron on a calm day, but it was more than a Driver when the wind is coming off the North Sea at 30-40mph!
 
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TheClaw said:
I hit a par 4 in 1 on Friday- 352 yards :whistle:

It was a touch down hill I'll admit (17th Gullane 2) :D
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Haha, I would hate to see a "proper" Downhill in that case :thup:

Personally, I don't mind long par 3's, I have as much chance of hitting* the green with driver as I do any other club. Forgetting the par, iIf the distance demands a certain club then that should determine the choice of club not the par.


* Caveat: Probably marginally higher chance of missing it in my case :D
 
Foxholer said:
Played those 2 holes a number of different ways.
5 iron; Driver (short) once
3-wood; 3-wood once

A few other variations, which is good, with varying success!

There are probably still 2 of the very first release of Pro-V1s in the chasm, close to the 'fence', of the 18th too!

Not quite sure whether I'm a particular fan of 17, but 18 is fabulous!

As for long Par 3s in general, I believe there should be a balance - though weighted somewhat to what hasn't been tested elsewhere on the course. From a 'normal' perspective' Merion may have it slightly wrong but I'm not sure these are 'normal' tees. And they are the best players in the world being tested in a Major, so that is fine by me!
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I've been having real difficulty with 17 up until yesterday and consequently I'm not a big fan either! I've hit anything from 3w to 5 iron in there, depending on the wind.

18 is a beast. Not content with being long, it's uphill, OOB right (as you've discovered) and the green has some enormous breaks on it. A 4 is a perfectly acceptable score - it's probably this hole that puts the SSS 1 over par.

I'll have a look for your Pro V1s the next time I'm down by the fence, which I am certain to be at some point in the future ;) It's a graveyard down there.
 
mcbroon said:
I've been having real difficulty with 17 up until yesterday and consequently I'm not a big fan either! I've hit anything from 3w to 5 iron in there, depending on the wind.

18 is a beast. Not content with being long, it's uphill, OOB right (as you've discovered) and the green has some enormous breaks on it. A 4 is a perfectly acceptable score - it's probably this hole that puts the SSS 1 over par.

I'll have a look for your Pro V1s the next time I'm down by the fence, which I am certain to be at some point in the future ;) It's a graveyard down there.
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Playing a hole well or badly and liking or not aren't particularly related in my book. I just thought 17 was a bit disappointingly uninteresting - though that may be its purpose/challenge. From memory, it was once quite short and was lengthened, so the definition may have been lost.

Don't worry about those balls! They threatened OB and have been there 12 years! The were, however, the first 2 Pro V1s I hit. My Irish mate was much amused! Could also partly explain why I prefer other brands!
 
I think that course managers / greenkeepers have to take more responsibility with this, ensuring that the holes are set up depending on condition that day (wind / firmness of greens etc).

We have three Par 3's over 200 yards (3rd, 5th, 14th). There seems to be a general unwritten rule that when the tee is on the back tier of the 3rd hole, it will be on the front of the 5th as they are next to each other.

This weekend, the holes were playing so that the 3rd was downwind and 5th into. The third was playing 195 to the flag with a strong helping wind and the 5th playing 227 to the flag with a strong wind into, making it play about 250. Most people were hitting drivers into the 5th with the majority not reaching. The 5th also has a long carry of about 180 over an OOB. It also has probably the hardest and fastest green on the course meaning that if you do come in low, you're unlikely to stay on the surface.

Like I say, I don't mind the holes in terms of length, but think a little more common sense should have been used to put the 3rd tee back and the 5th one up.

Hole videos for reference:

3rd - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDDVPG2c-lQ
5th - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81pnycSyHeY


Similarly, I think this same logic should have been applied to Merion on Sunday. When you've got a hole of that length and it's straight into the wind, at least bring the tees forward 20 yards to add some sort of entertainment factor to the hole.
 
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bobmac said:
If you have to assign a par figure to it, just think of it as an easy par 4
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I am with you here Bobbo, if I see a par 3 above 180 yards I start looking for a good place to lay up. I have a good short game so I have a much better chance of a par if I let it do its job rather than testing it from 30 yards wide out of rough over a bunker!

Use your handicap shots rather than gambling them!
 
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Our 1st is a par 3 of 238 yds, our 2nd, on the card as a par4 but in effect a par3 in competition due to sss being one below par, is a carry of 248yds. So if you start with two fours you feel quite happy.

Who said the game should be easy ? :D
 
Unless you are playing a stableford, par or bogey comp, par is just a notional number.

Medal/stroke play, whether 18 or 72 holes is about the total number of shots you take for the round(s). Doesn't matter if individual holes are 98, 250, or 650 yards long.

With a pro comp, whether a player is over or under par just gives a benchmark for sorting the leader board when players are at different holes.
 
MashieNiblick said:
Unless you are playing a stableford, par or bogey comp, par is just a notional number.

Medal/stroke play, whether 18 or 72 holes is about the total number of shots you take for the round(s). Doesn't matter if individual holes are 98, 250, or 650 yards long.

With a pro comp, whether a player is over or under par just gives a benchmark for sorting the leader board when players are at different holes.
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Putting too much emphasis on par is a weight many should lift from their shoulders, along with "its how many, not how"
 
thats all fine , but im talking about actuall design of the hole ,

ours off the back tees is 250down hill , its a bit daft , if you manage to get your lucky shot(cos thats what it is) to land in the right place , then it rolls to the back , anything short and its a devilish chip , short right you make 5 no question .

i would have no complaints tho if they made about 3 or 4 tees

maybe at 130yrds/170/200/220/250 back whites , then each time you turned up you wouldnt know what club you would be hitting instead of walking of the 4th throw the trees thinking oh great ive got to spank a 5 wood and hope i dont rack up a number!!!!
 
bobmac said:
If you have to assign a par figure to it, just think of it as an easy par 4
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The par 3 in question at Merion wasn't even an easy par 4..
240 carry into the wind with deep rough effectively making it an island.
No bale out area
It's a hole that plays into the hands of the big hitters, some coukdn't reach with a driver, some were able to take a long iron or hybrid. Even Phil took a 3 or 4 wood...
 
Jack_bfc said:
I keep reading this 'par doesnt matter' quote.

If your a high HC and 95% of your rounds are stableford. It matters;)
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The point is that you should only play shots you can play. If you stand on the tee of a par-3 of 250 yards and try to hit a shot (driver, say) you know you probably wouldn't or couldn't hit on a par-4 of 250 yards on which you would hit a 5 iron and wedge, then you are beating yourself. Play every hole with the shots you can reliably hit to get to the hole and you will optimise your scores, whatever it says on the card.
 
Ethan said:
The point is that you should only play shots you can play. If you stand on the tee of a par-3 of 250 yards and try to hit a shot (driver, say) you know you probably wouldn't or couldn't hit on a par-4 of 250 yards on which you would hit a 5 iron and wedge, then you are beating yourself. Play every hole with the shots you can reliably hit to get to the hole and you will optimise your scores, whatever it says on the card.
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I understnd the theory, I was being a tad flippant about the scoring;)
 
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