Lining up (Aim) for a Draw/Fade

[RGDave]

My best ever season was playing small pushes and draws. We know (these days) that the idea of the clubface aiming at the target with the body/feet one way or the other is kind of bunkum.

If you know you are going to draw a certain type of club (like your mid irons, say) then build it into your preparation for the shot.
There is one hole (a par 3) on my course where I always play for the draw. 1) it suits the hole and 2) suits the 4 iron (nasty offset Callaway BB) I tend to hit there.

My alignment is at a tree a little right of the green, and I guess the clubface is at the right-hand bunker. Works for me.

The other long-ish par 3 requires a 5 wood and suits a fade. This is hard for me, so I tend to set up with everything left and try to slash the hell out of it!!

Both would be fine straight, but I don't really have much joy with straight t.b.h.

 

[Spuddy]

Gotcha!

And I can't believe that there are people who still think that swing path dictates the starting direction of the ball.

believe it!

Happy as as always to be corrected.. Cheers guys

 

[patricks148]

but if you are hitting it straight and its going left its not a draw.... unless you are aiming left

 

[Foxholer]

G and D are the same shot, or should I say flight. In both, the face is closed to the swing path. The important thing to understand is how the initial ball flight is affected by your swing. The direction the ball initially heads is dependant on your swing path. Therefore if you have an in to out swing with a closed face relative to this path then the ball will start right and draw back in (G). If this is you're swing then you must setup aimed at the target.

If you have a neutral swing with a closed face at impact (as I do) then the ball will start straight before drawing left (D). For me to hit the target I have to aim right.

Highlighted parts totally wrong! :rant::sbox:

In Gareth's case the setup at target; swing in-to-out is probably what he has been doing (or at least setting up quite right enough).

It's Face Angle that affects the initial direction most as Cochrane and Stobbs wrote in 1967/68 and Trackman/Flightscope proved a little while ago!

G, D and A could all be the same swing (In to Out relative to Target), but with Club-face Closed to Path and Open, Straight, Closed to Target respectively.

Your Flight (D) is because of an In-to-Out swing with the Face aligned to the Target. You are correct that you need to aim right (adjust your 'aiming target') with same swing though.

There are much better explanations elsewhere - simply Google 'New Ball Flight Laws'!

 

[DaveM]

See, I've always called that a draw.

Anything starting right and moving back left being a push draw(?)

C &G are a draw and a fade respectively.

 

[Foxholer]

C &G are a draw and a fade respectively.

Er. No! Fade and Draw resp!

 

[Foxholer]

but if you are hitting it straight and its going left its not a draw.... unless you are aiming left

Yes it is! At least that's what 'D' in the diagram is. Hitting it Straight and it Going Left - as in Straight Left ('B' in the chart above) IS a Pull though.

Think 1. Where does it start (D=Straight;B=Left); 2. What does it do in the flight (D=Draw;B=Straight (Pull)).

 

[DaveM]

Er. No! Fade and Draw resp!

Lol I'm a lefty so it is for me.

 

[Foxholer]

Lol I'm a lefty so it is for me.

Read the Title of the Chart then!!!!

 

[the_coach]

See, I've always called that a draw.

Anything starting right and moving back left being a push draw(?)

What you describe as the real good shot to the par 3 is a draw, & how you'd set up for a draw is how you describe. Getting the draw is totally taken care of in the set-up at address with both the club face & the body's alignment, you just swing the same as you would for any full shot, there's no hans, wrists, forearms manipulation necessary. You set-up a little ways differently then swing normally as you did hence the good outcome.

A draw has to always start to the right of the 0º target line & works back to the 0º target line. A draw can never start to the left of the 0º target line.
A fade has to always start to the left of the 0º target line & works back to the 0º target line. A fade can never start to the right of the 0º target line.

Given that is true, which it is. There is no such shot as a pull draw - that's a pull hook of varying degrees of hook depending how big the curvature is. Or a push fade, that's a push slice of varying degrees of slice depending how big the curvature is.

Likewise there is a fade, not a pull fade, there is a draw, not a push draw.

 

[the_coach]

[video=youtube_share;shMrz6vKVcA]http://youtu.be/shMrz6vKVcA[/video]

 

[the_coach]

[video=youtube_share;516tSNfIBDs]http://youtu.be/516tSNfIBDs[/video]

 

[richy]

Highlighted parts totally wrong! :rant::sbox:

In Gareth's case the setup at target; swing in-to-out is probably what he has been doing (or at least setting up quite right enough).

It's Face Angle that affects the initial direction most as Cochrane and Stobbs wrote in 1967/68 and Trackman/Flightscope proved a little while ago!

G, D and A could all be the same swing (In to Out relative to Target), but with Club-face Closed to Path and Open, Straight, Closed to Target respectively.

Your Flight (D) is because of an In-to-Out swing with the Face aligned to the Target. You are correct that you need to aim right (adjust your 'aiming target') with same swing though.

There are much better explanations elsewhere - simply Google 'New Ball Flight Laws'!

Simmer down, you'll do yourself a small mischief. Someone has already made him aware

 

[Foxholer]

Simmer down, you'll do yourself a small mischief. Someone has already made him aware

Thanks for your concern, but - No Thanks! Happy to do him a large mischief if that gets the message across better though.

 

[patricks148]

Google boy is at it again, luckily i have him on block so can't see his cutting and pasting handy work:rofl:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Since I took up the game in 2010, I've always hit the ball pretty straight or with a slight fade.

As I've had lessons and my swing has begun to change I've started to hit more draws than anything else.

As a result I'm tending to miss my target left. Not by much, only usually a few yards, but have a question for you knowledgeable lot:

How do you aim for a particular shot?

As an example. You're hitting into a par 3. The pin is placed in the middle of a big, flat green as you look. If you play a consistent draw as your usual (Read as natural) shot:

Do you aim the clubface to your target, your target being the pin in the middle of the green, and align your body parallel to that line?

Or

Do you aim the clubface and body just a little right of the target (Flag stick) to allow for the curve back?

With the opposite applying for a fade.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts/opinions on aiming or allowing for a particular shot shape and how best to aim.

Any thoughts, as always, are welcome :thup:

Blimey - I didn't realise there was so much thinking involved

Guess I normally aim down the middle on par fours/5's and then normally have a very gentle draw but on the odd occasion can throw in a gentle fade.

Par threes I normally just aim a touch left of the pin and get a gentle fade with short irons - longer irons it's normally straight or the odd gentle draw

Or mainly just tee it up and hit it - feet always try and point towards the pin - it maybe totally wrong but I use my arms and roll them slightly when hitting drivers

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Google boy is at it again, luckily i have him on block so can't see his cutting and pasting handy work:rofl:

Who are you talking about ?

 

[Foxholer]

A draw has to always start to the right of the 0º target line & works back to the 0º target line. A draw can never start to the left of the 0º target line.
A fade has to always start to the left of the 0º target line & works back to the 0º target line. A fade can never start to the right of the 0º target line.

Given that is true, which it is. There is no such shot as a pull draw - that's a pull hook of varying degrees of hook depending how big the curvature is. Or a push fade, that's a push slice of varying degrees of slice depending how big the curvature is.

Likewise there is a fade, not a pull fade, there is a draw, not a push draw.

I disagree!! A first I think!

To me, a Slice is a large, possibly excessive Fade and a Hook is a large, possibly excessive Draw. The shapes (Hook/Draw or Slice/Fade) are the same and the attributes of the Club face and Path are the same - it's just a matter of scale whether it's the Draw/Fade or Hook/Slice.

It's quite acceptable to call a huge Right to Left shot that starts way right of the Target a Hook - around a tree for example.

What is required is a common, or at least agreed, set of terms. Those in the chart - from one of the many examples of 'New Ball Flight Laws' seem eminently acceptable and quite descriptive. That's not to say that a Pull Draw (or Push Fade) is a good or desirable shot, but it certainly describes it!

And it's a pretty standard set of descriptions. Even Jim McLean uses it - though, typically, he seems to claim he discovered/invented them!

 

[One Planer]

[video=youtube_share;516tSNfIBDs]http://youtu.be/516tSNfIBDs[/video]

Silly question.

When making a swing using this method I take it you swing along your toe line?

 

[Spuddy]

Silly question.

When making a swing using this method I take it you swing along your toe line?

By the look of it (and I'm learning here myself), if your natural swing is in to out then you might end up aiming left with your toe line but your swing path might be more along the line of the club face and the ball will go straight left along this line. In that case you would need to have your toe line further left to end up with a swing path that is out to in relative to the face angle.

please someone tell me I'm understanding this right now!