Let's talk putters..

[Hobbit]

I'm not sure grooves on a putter will make the slightest difference at all - can't remember the last time I managed any compression of a ball with a putter. Peripheral weighting, creating a larger sweet spot I can understand, but that takes the skill away when using toe hits for fast downhill putts.

Personally, I think the manufacturers have taken licence with the lack of regulations on putters for donkeys years and created a marketing fuelled monster of a business in a part of the game that is the easiest.

 

[Crow]

The first and perhaps only requirements for a good putting stroke are being able to deliver the sweetspot to the ball squarely and at the correct speed.

It helps if you know where the sweetspot is and modern putters are very good at making this obvious.
I've got some old putters where there's no clue as to where the sweetspot is so I've added a blob of tippex (other liquid papers are available) to the top of the blade to show it.

 

[Imurg]

I think groove tech is a way they can squeeze a bit more from heads.
We've probably all seen the videos of a putt being hit, how it skids for the first part then starts to roll.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think studies have shown a putt that starts rolling sooner has a greater chance of holding its line..
So eliminating that skid should help.
Grooves do that in a number of ways and most manufacturers have their own ideas on it.
But even the best groove ideas can't mask a dodgy stroke.

 

[huds1475]

IMHO that's 97.4% tosh, the loss in distance through missing the sweetspot will far outweigh any minuscule change from different depth grooves.
In any event, sound technique will not see a good putter hitting the ball towards the ends of the face.

Try one. It's not

 

[3565]

I think groove tech is a way they can squeeze a bit more from heads.
We've probably all seen the videos of a putt being hit, how it skids for the first part then starts to roll.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think studies have shown a putt that starts rolling sooner has a greater chance of holding its line..
So eliminating that skid should help.
Grooves do that in a number of ways and most manufacturers have their own ideas on it.
But even the best groove ideas can't mask a dodgy stroke.

Exactly. Majority on here have had some dealings with Launch monitors and how they can get the extra yardage out of their swing by using the 'latest' tech club. So until you go and get the numbers yourself on your putting its all guesses and personal opinions. Like One Planer I went on the Quintic system and without even changing my technique my putter compared to the Raa was shocking when you look at the numbers and how I was getting backspin and no forward roll until after 25inches. The Raa with grooves got the ball rolling straight away and that was confirmed when I tried an aid that leaves the balls imprint on a board, from the moment it left the face there was an impression, whilst another putter you could see how the ball had launched before its roll.

Ive had my Raa now for a year and I've definitely noticed that the ball rolls out far better and gets there where my brain is saying that's short. so like most things try it and find out for yourself I think you'd be suprised.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I have a selection of Ping and Rife putters, and when I have done side by side testing on my putting mat in my garage the Rife's definately puts a greater top spin on the ball from the point of contact.
But it doesn't matter what the putter does to the ball, as long as you are happy with your putters results and feel thats all that matters.

 

[Region3]

Has anyone seen peter finch's video on the new odyssey O range with the hooks on the face,
Nice to see someone saying it as it is and all the marketing gumf is just that
You'll have to search for it cause he actually swears

I think most club tech has reached it's end and all changes are mostly cosmetic nowadays.

To be fair, it isn't the manufacturers claim that it rolls the ball better that he is annoyed with, it's their tagline of "it will change the way people think about putting".

Odyssey are saying that the face insert will get the ball rolling forwards quickly even with bad technique.

 

[Region3]

IMHO that's 97.4% tosh, the loss in distance through missing the sweetspot will far outweigh any minuscule change from different depth grooves.
In any event, sound technique will not see a good putter hitting the ball towards the ends of the face.

There's a video on YouTube where they get a robot to hit out of the heel, toe and middle and the balls all go the same distance and direction. It's really quite impressive. They don't do a shape I like the look of though so they're not for me... yet.

If for argument's sake you lose 5% distance when you miss the sweet spot, they have removed enough material (in the form of grooves) from the centre to lose you the same 5% distance.

 

[BristolMike]

I really want to try an evnroll. The ER2 seems the most like my scotty square back. They seem difficult to find though

 

[Foxholer]

...
But it doesn't matter what the putter does to the ball, as long as you are happy with your putters results and feel thats all that matters.

This!!!

I dabbled with/collected putters for quite a few years. Turned out my first Bettinardi purchase (a BB23) was pretty much perfect for me! It was fun to try others and I ended up with another 'perfect match' that I used for about 10 years - up until not long ago when I acquired the current tool!

They all work! It's just that some work better for my (or your!) particular quirks than others! While there are things about my putting that I can/should easily improve (particularly alignment) the current tool naturally encourages me to get the ball running well in the direction I want and to/in/past the hole much better than any other one I've had. I'm certain that a proper fitting (I've had a couple of 'nearly proper' ones) would not change what I've found out for myself.

FWIW, while there is certainly evidence that getting the ball rolling rather than skidding asap, I believe it's far more important (at least..for me!) to have a grip the right size than to worry about skid vs roll!

If you really want to improve your putting, then two 'instant feedback' tools that I've used might help - the Momentus triangular putter that has a tiny face, so encourages hitting the ball properly and a simple pair of lines with squiggles between on a few balls (pinched from a Dave Pelz aid) that shows whether or not the ball is rolling properly (end over end). If you watch the guns putting, that end-over-end roll is something they are great at doing - with whatever actual putter they use!

 

[huds1475]

I really want to try an evnroll. The ER2 seems the most like my scotty square back. They seem difficult to find though

I went online and Googled UK distributors (I think). There was a decent number and spread 6 months ago, though not in 'golf shop' type shops!

 

[Maninblack4612]

The grooves are space differently from the middle to the ends. Therefore an even roll (not a pun) is maintained from centre or toe/heel strikes

Which must be really handy when even a moderately decent putter can get within millimeters of the sweet spot every time & even if he doesn't I would think that the spacing of the grooves makes little difference.

 

[huds1475]

Which must be really handy when even a moderately decent putter can get within millimeters of the sweet spot every time & even if he doesn't I would think that the spacing of the grooves makes little difference.

You would think..

Thinking is seldom conclusive proof of anything.

 

[Crow]

There's a video on YouTube where they get a robot to hit out of the heel, toe and middle and the balls all go the same distance and direction. It's really quite impressive. They don't do a shape I like the look of though so they're not for me... yet.

If for argument's sake you lose 5% distance when you miss the sweet spot, they have removed enough material (in the form of grooves) from the centre to lose you the same 5% distance.

I'd be interested to see that.
I believe that it's the twisting of the clubhead that has a big impact on loss of distance and line, was the putter held in a vice like grip by the robot that reduced the twisting effect of an off centre strike?

I had a quick look on YouTube and could only find the below but this shows loss of distance, even with what looks like a pretty vice like grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEmtuFlGBWE

 

[Crow]

You would think..

Thinking is seldom conclusive proof of anything.

Neither are manufacturers' claims.

 

[huds1475]

Neither are manufacturers' claims.

Very true.

Which is why I went to see them, and try them, for myself.

And only then, make up my mind

 

[Region3]

I'd be interested to see that.
I believe that it's the twisting of the clubhead that has a big impact on loss of distance and line, was the putter held in a vice like grip by the robot that reduced the twisting effect of an off centre strike?

I had a quick look on YouTube and could only find the below but this shows loss of distance, even with what looks like a pretty vice like grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEmtuFlGBWE

You could be right re the direction and twisting, I think you're video disproves the vice like grip as far as distance goes. The second ball is a fraction right but not a lot.

Here's the one I meant.

https://youtu.be/Zwj--IqYTj0

 

[Crow]

I guess that there are a lot of variables involved and it's very hard to be accurate about what effect and how much each will have, certainly too many for me at my level of golf to worry about.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

But even the best groove ideas can't mask a dodgy stroke.

And that's the nail being hit on the head. It doesn't matter if you have a £10 find in a bargain bucket or a top of the range Scotty or similar, if you fail to put a good stroke on it on a regular basis, and in essence the mechanics and basics are flawed, then you'll never going to see consistent results irrespective of what new technology manufacturers bring out.

 

[Maninblack4612]

You would think..

Thinking is seldom conclusive proof of anything.

I recently went on a SAM putting lab. All my strokes were off centre, but by literally millimeters. If you're missing the sweet spot by more than that then no amount of tech goodies are going to help you.

The secret is to find a putter that suits your natural stroke & practice with it. For example, I believe that the softer the stroke the more accurate you will be so I have found a putter where the ball leaps off the face. Took a little getting used to but I putt really well with it. Can't stand putters with soft inserts, but that's just me. Other folks obviously swear by them.