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Let battle commence! PGA V R&A and USGA

Shakey said:
Aside from the sheer ugliness and inelegance, I don't have a problem with anchoring.

It's open to everyone to do, if they wish.

If it is banned, I think people should be given bags of time (at least a year) to make the switch. Whatever your take on anchoring, some people have been doing it forever, and it's not their fault the powers-that-be are having a change of heart.

It's people's livelihoods on the line here, so this needs to be done with extreme care and good sense.

And if we're talking about alien things that make the game 'easier', maybe start with drivers that are the size of frying pans (like the one I use!).
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Is that on top of the 3 years warning they are going to get if the rule change is announced this year or the 2 years if it takes until next Januaury?

We have one player that uses a long putter at our place and he is in favour of the ban. He acknowedges that there is an advantage and that it's not really fair to have that advantage over people using short putters. He is also fine with going back to a short putter.
 
Andy808 said:
Is that on top of the 3 years warning they are going to get if the rule change is announced this year or the 2 years if it takes until next Januaury?

We have one player that uses a long putter at our place and he is in favour of the ban. He acknowedges that there is an advantage and that it's not really fair to have that advantage over people using short putters. He is also fine with going back to a short putter.
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I didn't know that. That sounds plenty-mente, as they say in Spain.
 
Andy808 said:
Is that on top of the 3 years warning they are going to get if the rule change is announced this year or the 2 years if it takes until next Januaury?

We have one player that uses a long putter at our place and he is in favour of the ban. He acknowedges that there is an advantage and that it's not really fair to have that advantage over people using short putters. He is also fine with going back to a short putter.
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I don't understand this bit, though. How is he 'at an advantage' if everyone is free to do the same thing'?
 
Shakey said:
I don't understand this bit, though. How is he 'at an advantage' if everyone is free to do the same thing'?
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If a player has the yips, or has a nasty habit of pushing and pulling the ball by getting wristy, the anchoring of the putter at a 3rd point, "allegedly" makes it "easier" to make a stroke.

Not sure if this is the case with Andy's example, but in general that's why people move to them.
 
Imurg said:
My take on this is, and always has been, the way the "stroke" is made.
Every other shot played in this game is played with the hand(s) being the only part of the body to touch the club.
Why should putting be any different?


The Anchoring Ban is good for the game and it's irrelevent as to the timing. Yes it could and probably should have been done long ago.
Doesn't stop it being right now.
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What a great summary!
That is the essence of the whole argument, and imo probably the view of R&A and USGA rules committees.

Shakey said:
I don't understand this bit, though. How is he 'at an advantage' if everyone is free to do the same thing'?
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The "advantage" (or otherwise) is a red herring imho. It's about ... the way a stroke is made.
 
murphthemog said:
How many amateurs really use the long putter, and would they really give up golf?
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Hardly anyone at my club uses a long putter - I tried it about 10 years ago but didn't like it.
I tend to agree that it should have been banned years ago especially as there have been generations that have grown up using belly putters now.
 
I couldn't care less as I don't use one so won't be affected. I have no issue with other people using them as they don't get any advantage. They might be rubbish with a short stick, there's a choice, and the choice they make keeps them playing the game.

Seems OK to me.



Some people choose to hit hybrids as they can't manage anything over a 6-iron... should they also just quit playing?
 
just a theory. All these pro's play/practice golf full time. Surely if it was banned they would have enough time to master putting without anchoring?

If they can't then they lose their card for not being good enough overall.
 
I think this was inevitable but I can't seeing it creating the split that is being threatened. On the one side you have the rule making organisations who are looking to implement a purer definition of 'the stroke' in all golf shots played. On the other side you have equipment makers and players bodies who will reflect the need for choice in the market and choice for their players already using this kind of putting stroke.

I think the Rules bodies should simplify this to a discussion about what a golf stroke does and does not include. It makes a greater mess later down the line if we accept that anchoring is allowed. How about anchoring your driver to your knee to allow a perfect strike every time? Or anchoring your irons to a portable metal frame to guarantee a re-producible swing path?

The issue is not about relative advantage of some clubs over others, the issue is what constitutes a fair stroke at the ball and what does not. The fall out of the wrong decision could be great (irrespective of what way the decision goes) but I think it'll all get pushed through and a huge majority will accept it, some happily, some gracefully and some while voicing loud protest. A marginal few may leave the game but I doubt even that - it may be given up as an excuse for what was going to happen anyway.
 
G1BB0 said:
just a theory. All these pro's play/practice golf full time. Surely if it was banned they would have enough time to master putting without anchoring?

If they can't then they lose their card for not being good enough overall.
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The reason they went to the long putter in the first place is because they are better with it, that's why they don't want it banned. Even if they are only 0.5 putts better on average per round, that makes a massive difference.
 
I get a slight feeling that this argument was pretty much inevitable and it is fairly irrelevant that anchoring has been the subject to start it off, the assumption being that the PGA are more interested in the money and the manufacturers rather than the heritage of the game. The real arguments are in the future and will be to do with distance. They will involve looking at the ball and maybe even having a look at the driver again as well. You also have to look at the fact that the manufacturers having done all they can within the current rules so far as the driver is concerned. Imagine how hard it will be to try and sell equipment that is actually shorter off the tee.
The PGA is in a relatively strong position at the moment so why not start the fight now. What will happen, either the authorities back down on this and find themselves looking weak and backing down on future arguments or the breakaway happens and the PGA gets it way. I just have a feeling that this has more serious long term implications beyond this debate.
 
GB72 said:
I get a slight feeling that this argument was pretty much inevitable and it is fairly irrelevant that anchoring has been the subject to start it off, the assumption being that the PGA are more interested in the money and the manufacturers rather than the heritage of the game. The real arguments are in the future and will be to do with distance. They will involve looking at the ball and maybe even having a look at the driver again as well. You also have to look at the fact that the manufacturers having done all they can within the current rules so far as the driver is concerned. Imagine how hard it will be to try and sell equipment that is actually shorter off the tee.
The PGA is in a relatively strong position at the moment so why not start the fight now. What will happen, either the authorities back down on this and find themselves looking weak and backing down on future arguments or the breakaway happens and the PGA gets it way. I just have a feeling that this has more serious long term implications beyond this debate.
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They don't have to change the equipment, they just need to narrow the fairways, grow the rough and stop manicuring the bunkers to put more of a premium on hitting it straight\accurately. The way most courses are setup at the moment straight isn't a requirement, make it one and the equipment can stay as it is.

I do agree with your last sentence.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
They don't have to change the equipment, they just need to narrow the fairways, grow the rough and stop manicuring the bunkers to put more of a premium on hitting it straight\accurately. The way most courses are setup at the moment straight isn't a requirement, make it one and the equipment can stay as it is.
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I would like to see the pros play to tiny little greens like most of us have at our clubs :D
 
Regardless of the other arguments for and against, I don't go for the 'it will lose players' idea one bit. If someone told me tomorrow that I couldn't use my regular size putter, or even driver or wedge or any other club, I wouldn't think about giving up the game for one minute, and I think everyone else I know who plays the game would feel the same. It's a scare tactic to get the manufacturers (sponsors) against the ban IMO.
 
joe nustedt said:
Regardless of the other arguments for and against, I don't go for the 'it will lose players' idea one bit. If someone told me tomorrow that I couldn't use my regular size putter, or even driver or wedge or any other club, I wouldn't think about giving up the game for one minute, and I think everyone else I know who plays the game would feel the same. It's a scare tactic to get the manufacturers (sponsors) against the ban IMO.
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How much fun would it be if you had to play blades?

How about if everyone you knew had to play blades? - would they be enjoying their golf? or indeed even able to play very well at all?
 
Too many people are getting caught up in the PGA's argument and not enough are listening to the R&A/USGA argument.
The PGA are whining about "no advantage" while the Rulemakers are looking at the fairness of the stroke
Really, the advantage argument is clouding the issue. It's irrelevent if there is an advantage or not.
 
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