Lateral water hazard re dropping?

[upsidedown]

In our inter club scratch matchplay yesterday my playing partner went into a lateral and went about dropping under the 2 club lengths option. First drop went back into hazard so re drop but this time didn't go back but due to proximity of red line to the water it was impossible to play his shot with out getting wet..
I thought that was rub of the green and tough luck but playing opponents said No place where second ball hit the ground, as would have been the case had it rolled back into the hazard.

Who was right?

 

[bobmac]

Was the ball or player in casual water ?

 

[upsidedown]

The ball would have been in play but the player would have been in the water hazard to play it.

 

[bobmac]

I haven't checked the rule book so don't quote me but...
If the ball is not in the hazard but the player is, then tough.
I could be wrong though

 

[upsidedown]

To add some clarity the red line is right on the waters edge in this case, not good in my opinion.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I haven't checked the rule book so don't quote me but...
If the ball is not in the hazard but the player is, then tough.
I could be wrong though

Just been looking this up and I think you are right.

Relief is only for ball in hazard and you can re-drop if ball rolls back into hazard so situation is different from when dropping under rules where reference point is nearest point of relief, when you can re-drop if there is still "interference" from the condition from which relief is sought.

Rule 20-2 Dropping and Re-Dropping

c. When to Re-Drop

A dropped ball must be re-dropped, without penalty, if it:
(i) rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard;
(ii) rolls out of and comes to rest outside a hazard;
(iii) rolls onto and comes to rest on a putting green;
(iv) rolls and comes to rest out of bounds;
(v) rolls to and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 24-2b (immovable obstruction), Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground conditions), Rule 25-3 (wrong putting green) or a Local Rule (Rule 33-8a), or rolls back into the pitch-mark from which it was lifted under Rule 25-2 (embedded ball);
(vi) rolls and comes to rest more than two club-lengths from where it first struck a part of the course; or
(vii) rolls and comes to rest nearer the hole than:
(a) its original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules; or
(b) the nearest point of relief or maximum available relief (Rule 24-2, 25-1 or 25-3); or
(c) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or lateral water hazard (Rule 26-1).
If the ball when re-dropped rolls into any position listed above, it must be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped.

 

[duncan mackie]

I thought that was rub of the green and tough luck but playing opponents said No place where second ball hit the ground, as would have been the case had it rolled back into the hazard.

Who was right?

MN has quoted the rule, and in this case it would seem the red line is in the wrong place - bt that's another matter.

However, this is matchplay....so what is agreed between the players is 'right', even if it's wrong. Agree with them, place and play away.

 

[rosecott]

MN has quoted the rule, and in this case it would seem the red line is in the wrong place - bt that's another matter.

Rules Decisions says:

Stakes and lines defining the margins of water hazards should be placed along the natural limits of the hazard.

 

[duncan mackie]

Rules Decisions says:

Stakes and lines defining the margins of water hazards should be placed along the natural limits of the hazard.

and goes on to say "ie where the ground breaks down to form the natural depression containing the water", and of course many water hazards have an actual water level that varies which, with sloping banks, will mean that the margin of the water itself will also vary and any marking should avoid the water being outside the lines (26-2 tells us the committee would be in error (in placing the stakes) if such occured.

for LWH it's important that the availability of 26-1c as an option is retained, 26-1/19 tells us that minor deviations from the specific guidance are permitted to ensure that a player can practically utilise this option (and even goes as far as to recomend a DZ if necessary.

this would seem consistent with what I posted earlier?

 

[SGC001]

Slightly O/T but when you take a drop and have options think about which is the best option. Look at where you may drop and see what bounce you'd expect. Your partner may well have had a better option available to them.

 

[upsidedown]

Slightly O/T but when you take a drop and have options think about which is the best option. Look at where you may drop and see what bounce you'd expect. Your partner may well have had a better option available to them.

I've been thinking that maybe this is what the Pro's do on sloping drops, they drop to ensure that the ball goes back into the hazard ensuring a "place"

 

[upsidedown]

Just to finish this off, e-mailed R&A and this was the reply

Thank you for your email and query on the Rules of Golf.

Under Rule 26, relief is only available for the lie of the ball. Therefore when taking relief, provided the ball has not rolled back into the margins of the hazard, the ball is in play.

This is regardless of the fact that the player may now need to stand in the hazard to play the ball. Relief is only for the lie of the ball and not for stance or area of intended swing.