Lady problems

[rosecott]

Query today from our Lady Captain. Our ladies play mostly 9-hole comps alternating between front and back 9. Here is the query, verbatim, for expert consideration:

We played off the back 9 today.

One group teed off the 1st and realised after 3 strokes.

1 lady came back to join the group behind and play off the 10th.

1 lady blobbed the hole and carried on.

1) is there a penalty for the one that came back after 3 shots and continued to tee off the correct tee?

2) if so what?

3) is there any penalty for the one that blobbed the hole but carried on?

I suspect there may be further information needed, but any immediate thoughts?

 

[chellie]

Surely it's DQ from the comp for playing off the wrong course.

 

[rulie]

1 lady blobbed the hole and carried on.
You'll need to explain this further - blobbed what hole and carried on where?

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely it's DQ from the comp for playing off the wrong course.

Maybe not.
You can play another course before a comp.
The comp started on the 10th so the front nine is not the comp course. Imo.
I might be wrong though.

 

[Crow]

Maybe not.
You can play another course before a comp.
The comp started on the 10th so the front nine is not the comp course. Imo.
I might be wrong though.

I'd agree in general but as a result of teeing off on the wrong nine she might have missed her tee time and incurred the relevant penalty.
(I might be also wrong though!)

 

[clubchamp98]

I'd agree in general but as a result of teeing off on the wrong nine she might have missed her tee time and incurred the relevant penalty.
(I might be also wrong though!)

At ours the ladies and mens nine hole comps don’t have strict tee times.
They are just between 9am 4pm in summer.
Play when you can.

But if tee times are in place you would be correct. ( that’s one of us at least)

 

[williamalex1]

Lady problems, It's been a while .

 

[rulie]

A fellow referee once advised me to be very cautious of questions coming from the ladies club.

 

[Colin L]

Swiftly swerving past those last two comments to gender-free territory
Edit:
Thanks to those who pointed to the late start possibility. The players were required to be ready to start at the right time at the place at the correct place [Interpretation 5.3a/2]. They weren't and so 5.3a applies. If that is right, what I wrote earlier would apply to playing from the wrong tee at any later stage but not to the first hole of the round:

I'd say the player who played a few strokes on the 1st and then re-started on the 10th played from outside the teeing area, getting a two stroke penalty. The strokes played from outside the teeing area and subsequent strokes played with that ball don't count [6.1b(2)]. That player is not disqualified because the teeing error was corrected before starting the next hole. If what is meant is the the other player counted a blob for the 1st hole and then carried on from the 11th, that player failed to correct the error before starting the next hole and is disqualified in regular (medal) stroke play [last bullet point of 6.1b(2)] but gets zero points and is not disqualified in stableford [21.1c(2)]. I guess it was stableford from the reference to "blobbed'.

All of that ignores the fact that both players changed their group. Someone else may go there if they wish.

I don't see being late for start time would be a relevant issue assuming they were ready to start in time albeit not on the correct tee. The fact that it was the wrong place is dealt with by the teeing area rule.

 

[jim8flog]

My view would be each 9 is a separate course



3. The lady who went back to the correct tee. If the lady had a fixed tee time and missed it she was DQd if not DQd for missing tee time occurs no penalty for holes played on another course. She is also in breach of Rule

2.If the other lady carried on on the wrong course how could she be in the competition. Also a DQ for missing tee time. If you mean she went to the 11th tee how can she in the comp without a marker 5.4 by switching groups - DQ Rule 5.1 would apply
5.1 Meaning of Round

A “round ” is 18 or fewer holes played in the order set by the Committee.

 

[rulefan]

My view would be each 9 is a separate course

Unless it was marked or defined as OOB then surely it was on the course.
IMO Colin has it.

 

[Steven Rules]

All of that ignores the fact that both players changed their group. Someone else may go there if they wish.

Yes. That was on my checklist of points to contribute although I recall we had a discussion about this fairly recently.

5.4b
Stroke Play
During a round, the player must remain in the group set by the Committee, unless the Committee approves a change either before or after it happens.
Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.4: Disqualification.

I don't see being late for start time would be a relevant issue assuming they were ready to start in time albeit not on the correct tee.

The player needs to be at the correct tee.

5.3a
When to Start Round
A player’s round starts when the player makes a stroke to start his or her first hole (see Rule 6.1a).
The player must start at (and not before) his or her starting time:
This means that the player must be ready to play at the starting time and starting point set by the Committee.

 

[IanM]

Ladies 9 hole roll up.

Do not interfere. Don't quote rules. Parallel universe in operation.

Same as the Seniors!

 

[Neilds]

In these sort of situations I sometimes feel that a quick "you stupid cow, why did you tee off from the first? Get to the 10th and start properly!" should suffice and everyone would be happy.

But we all know where common sense is in the rule book

 

[Colin L]

Morning all. As you see, I didn't go with the late for start time idea but had a further think about it as I was getting outnumbered. Checking on Interpretation 5.3a/2 Meaning of Starting Point, I see that it clarifies that the starting point is the teeing area of the hole where the player will start his or her round as set by the Committee and so I'm with you now. I've amended my earlier post accordingly.

Maybe we could do without the sexist stuff? Please?

 

[IanM]

And ageist!

Ah that was me! (58 & 3/4)

 

[clubchamp98]

In these sort of situations I sometimes feel that a quick "you stupid cow, why did you tee off from the first? Get to the 10th and start properly!" should suffice and everyone would be happy.

But we all know where common sense is in the rule book

A couple of our ladies would be insulted .
But some would agree with you.
It’s very relaxed in the nine hole comps.
I know the ladies can play either nine, but not sure if they have to declare what one.

 

[Steven Rules]

As you see, I didn't go with the late for start time idea but had a further think about it

I have also reflected a bit more and for this specific scenario, in which I assume there are no set starting times and the groups are not set by the Committee, some aspects of 5.3a and 5.4b might be a little difficult to enforce.

 

[rosecott]

I now have some additional information.

A little context – the course is 9-hole played as 18-hole with different tees on the back 9 which are generally longer than the front 9 with different aspects – tee 10 is about 70 yards forward of tee 1.

There were 2 ladies who mistakenly teed off from tee 1 instead of tee 10. When they realised their mistake, one walked back to tee 10 and joined up with the waiting next group. The other player decided that, having blobbed the hole, she would walk forward to the 11th tee. When the following group – including the player she had started with – finished the 10th hole, she teamed up with 2 others from that group, neither being the player she had originally started with.

I’m not making this up.

 

[Ian_George]

My view, FWIW....
Player who simply blobbed and walked to the 11th gets DQ-ed. Other(s) no problem. To me, it's equivalent to starting on 2nd after being late for the 1st in a Stableford comp.