Ladies match issue

[Pathetic Shark]

Disclaimer at the start - I was not at the club that day and have no involvement!

Last Thursday, our ladies played a friendly match against another club. Six four balls went off at 9.02am. The last groups were coming in around five and a half hours later and they had flat out refused multiple times to let anyone through at any time in spite of there being gaps between the matches. They then went and complained to the GM about being "hassled from behind" by various groups, several of whom had walked in because of the slow play.

The Rules of golf state that a group should let a faster match through if there is a gap.

So the $64K question, should they have done it? And what should happen now?


I'll sit back with my popcorn on this one (a phrase repeated verbatim by the pro when he heard about it)

 

[Foxholer]

...
The Rules of golf state that a group should let a faster match through if there is a gap.
...

No they don't!

As for the actual circumstances...

Many team matches don't allow/permit following groups through! It's a pretty common practice in fact. This generally overrides the Etiquette that faster groups should be let through. Groups that have the potential to encounter team matches should be warned of the possibility.

So both 'sides' are likely to have valid reasons to moan.

 

[louise_a]

So presumably if the first went out at 9.02 I would guess the last went out about a hour later, so if the came in 5 and a half hours after the first group went out, it only actually took them 4 and a half hours, which is a little on the long side for a 4 ball but hardly shockingly long.

I have played in ladies 4 ball events and inevitably as soon as the last group have teed off there are men waiting to go out, which is fair enough but surely they cant expect to be let through. putting the boot on the other foot, if it was a men's match holding people up would they let them through?

Would there have been moaning if it had been a men's match?

Surely a match of any type or a competition would have priority over social games.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Is the fact that they were ladies relevant?

 

[LIG]

Disclaimer at the start - I was not at the club that day and have no involvement!

Last Thursday, our ladies played a friendly match against another club. Six four balls went off at 9.02am. The last groups were coming in around five and a half hours later and they had flat out refused multiple times to let anyone through at any time in spite of there being gaps between the matches. They then went and complained to the GM about being "hassled from behind" by various groups, several of whom had walked in because of the slow play.

The Rules of golf state that a group should let a faster match through if there is a gap.

So the $64K question, should they have done it? And what should happen now?


I'll sit back with my popcorn on this one (a phrase repeated verbatim by the pro when he heard about it)

Can't have been a very "friendly" match if they're taking around 4hrs 40 mins to finish - No gimmees!!??
(Although the time is dependent on how long a fourball usually takes at the OP's club.)

 

[shortgame]

Sounds a bit embarrasing for the home club and not showing them in a good light

Matches, especially 4-balls, should be given a little bit of breathing space

There should be a buffer (half hour or so) behind them to prevent this problem / and or the groups behind should be forewarned and asked for their patience and understanding

If the matches are taking too long then this can be discussed & addressed subsequently at the relevant meetings etc (not with confrontations/frayed tempers on the course in front of visiting teams)

From the OP it's unclear if it was 5.5 hours for the overall match from start to finish (acceptable) or 5.5 hours for each group (unacceptable)

 

[chellie]

So presumably if the first went out at 9.02 I would guess the last went out about a hour later, so if the came in 5 and a half hours after the first group went out, it only actually took them 4 and a half hours, which is a little on the long side for a 4 ball but hardly shockingly long.

I have played in ladies 4 ball events and inevitably as soon as the last group have teed off there are men waiting to go out, which is fair enough but surely they cant expect to be let through. putting the boot on the other foot, if it was a men's match holding people up would they let them through?

Would there have been moaning if it had been a men's match?

Surely a match of any type or a competition would have priority over social games.

You've said exactly what I would have said Louise. Would hazard a guess that the answer to the bit I've bolded would be no.

 

[shortgame]

You've said exactly what I would have said Louise. Would hazard a guess that the answer to the bit I've bolded would be no.

Mens/Scratch/Ladies/Juniors/Veterans should make no difference, all should be afforded the same respect and courtesy

Sadly this isn't always the case oo:

 

[Dasit]

Not sure why they would be going in and complaining to the GM. Seems very petty.

Either keep up with pace of play or let people through.

 

[MadAdey]

If the club has got an inter club match arranged then they should keep the tee clear for 30 mins after like has already been said, same for any comps IMO. But on the other hand even if you are playing a competitive match and your falling behind the pace of play you should either pick up the pace or let people through.. After all this game is built around etiquette and just because you are playing a competitive match, it doesn't give you the right to hold the course up. Then again on the flip side if your going out in a 2-ball behind a golf match then you just need to accept that it is gonna be a long day.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Mens/Scratch/Ladies/Juniors/Veterans should make no difference, all should be afforded the same respect and courtesy

Sadly this isn't always the case oo:

Indeed. I doubt there would have been the same level of moaning had it been a men's team match.

On several occasions I've been in the first group in a team match and waited on almost every shot for men in front who I dare say would never have done that to the men's scratch team.

Golf has a long way to go to eradicate such sexist attitudes.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Irrelevant of whether I'm playing in a comp, match, social game.
I let any group through regardless of sex or age if they are faster than thou.
And that's how it should be.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Irrelevant of whether I'm playing in a comp, match, social game.
I let any group through regardless of sex or age if they are faster than thou.
And that's how it should be.

100% agree, competition or not, if your faster and will move on ahead into a gap then your going through. Has to be a gap or slower groups ahead to go through, unless we are just painfully slow and will help ease some tension.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Just been down to the club and found out a few more details to answer some of the comments posted.

The final fourball teed off at around 9.40am and finished at 3.15. 5 hours 35 minutes.
It is not a private club - it is one of the Crown group where "the club" has playing rights on the course.
All of the women players were loudly complaining afterwards about being pressured from behind with an attitude of "we were in a match so we had total priority".

It is the latter comment that is drawing the most ire. Just because you are playing a match that is important in your own little world does not give you the right to ruin everyone else's game behind you.

 

[louise_a]

over five and a half hours is inexcusable,

 

[Foxholer]

Just been down to the club and found out a few more details to answer some of the comments posted.

The final fourball teed off at around 9.40am and finished at 3.15. 5 hours 35 minutes.
It is not a private club - it is one of the Crown group where "the club" has playing rights on the course.
All of the women players were loudly complaining afterwards about being pressured from behind with an attitude of "we were in a match so we had total priority".

It is the latter comment that is drawing the most ire. Just because you are playing a match that is important in your own little world does not give you the right to ruin everyone else's game behind you.

Ever considered that the entire team match may have been held up by P&P groups in front?

5hr 30 isn't unusual, at times, for some Crown courses!!

And you still haven't resolved whether the claim of 'total priority' was correct or not! That's something that needs to be determined before any criticism is made!

 

[hovis]

Is the fact that they were ladies relevant?

I've played at multiple clubs where if you tee off after the alloted ladies slot then your not getting through plain and simple. seems common amongst the clubs I've played that women refuse to let the men through

 

[AmandaJR]

Indeed. I doubt there would have been the same level of moaning had it been a men's team match.

On several occasions I've been in the first group in a team match and waited on almost every shot for men in front who I dare say would never have done that to the men's scratch team.

Golf has a long way to go to eradicate such sexist attitudes.

Yep - it's tiring to be honest and frustrating - one reason I play less golf these days...

 

[Hobbit]

Just been down to the club and found out a few more details to answer some of the comments posted.

The final fourball teed off at around 9.40am and finished at 3.15. 5 hours 35 minutes.
It is not a private club - it is one of the Crown group where "the club" has playing rights on the course.
All of the women players were loudly complaining afterwards about being pressured from behind with an attitude of "we were in a match so we had total priority".

It is the latter comment that is drawing the most ire. Just because you are playing a match that is important in your own little world does not give you the right to ruin everyone else's game behind you.

If I teed off behind a match I wouldn't expect to get through, nor would I pressure them by playing close up behind them. If invited through I'd politely decline - there's no point in going through when there's x number of matches in front of them. Equally, if I was in a match I'd be disappointed to be chased. If playing slowly for whatever reason I'd offer the group behind to go through.

5.5 hours is too long, and a politely worded letter to the team captain might be as far as I'd expect the club to go. Representative matches from ladies, gents, juniors, rabbits etc are part of the fabric of the game, and I respect that.

 

[Blue in Munich]

If I teed off behind a match I wouldn't expect to get through, nor would I pressure them by playing close up behind them. If invited through I'd politely decline - there's no point in going through when there's x number of matches in front of them. Equally, if I was in a match I'd be disappointed to be chased. If playing slowly for whatever reason I'd offer the group behind to go through.

5.5 hours is too long, and a politely worded letter to the team captain might be as far as I'd expect the club to go. Representative matches from ladies, gents, juniors, rabbits etc are part of the fabric of the game, and I respect that.

Sums it up nicely for me. As an aside, Mrs BiM asked what I was posting about; I gave her the brief circumstances and her immediate comment was "Surely if you're that slow you should let people through?"………..

Indeed. I doubt there would have been the same level of moaning had it been a men's team match.

On several occasions I've been in the first group in a team match and waited on almost every shot for men in front who I dare say would never have done that to the men's scratch team.

Golf has a long way to go to eradicate such sexist attitudes.

Having been on the wrong end of a completely unjustified mouthful from ladies who had chosen to go off early behind a club 4 ball match I can assure you that it cuts both ways Karen.