Labour and the SNP

[Hobbit]

There was an interesting quote on the BBC labour programme last week from the lead shop steward at Ravenscraig. He said 'people haven't left the Labour Party, the Labour Party have left them."

I'd argue that the vast majority of the public haven't changed their political ideologies. They've just realised that the Labour Party no longer share their views.

Well said sir.

You're not wrong there. The Labour party of today bears little resemblance to the Socialist Party it was 30yrs+ ago. Many of their values were admirable, and perhaps should be the sort of caring values many would hope our elected representatives would aspire to. However, that sort of social engineering comes at a cost, but at this moment in the world's economic cycle they are unaffordable.

The SNP remind me very much of the old Labour Party, and as such it is understandable why a former Labour stronghold like Scotland finds them attractive, especially with the added slant of independence in the mix. And as much as their whimsical policies might appeal, I fear that funding the Shangri-La will eventually hurt Scotland and its people immensely.

Back to the original post; maybe the Labour Party also recognise their former self in the relatively fledgling party that is the SNP. To ally themselves to a party whose overriding mission is the break up of the union, as well as being on the road to the sort of mess Labour themselves brought on the UK 30+yrs ago... maybe for all Labour's current failings, they aren't that stupid.

 

[SocketRocket]

You're not wrong there. The Labour party of today bears little resemblance to the Socialist Party it was 30yrs+ ago. Many of their values were admirable, and perhaps should be the sort of caring values many would hope our elected representatives would aspire to. However, that sort of social engineering comes at a cost, but at this moment in the world's economic cycle they are unaffordable.

The SNP remind me very much of the old Labour Party, and as such it is understandable why a former Labour stronghold like Scotland finds them attractive, especially with the added slant of independence in the mix. And as much as their whimsical policies might appeal, I fear that funding the Shangri-La will eventually hurt Scotland and its people immensely.

Back to the original post; maybe the Labour Party also recognise their former self in the relatively fledgling party that is the SNP. To ally themselves to a party whose overriding mission is the break up of the union, as well as being on the road to the sort of mess Labour themselves brought on the UK 30+yrs ago... maybe for all Labour's current failings, they aren't that stupid.

Here Here! A very good post indeed :thup:

 

[Craigg]

my views may not be minority within the country I live.

Not wishing to take sides here, but the referendum result was won with a majority .....wasn't it?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Not wishing to take sides here, but the referendum result was won with a majority .....wasn't it?

It seems that you don't understand how it works. 56% (ish) voting No to independence in the referendum doesn't actually count for anything, but 50% (ish) voting for the SNP in the general election means that the Scottish people have spoken and the once in a generation pledge is no longer valid.

 

[NWJocko]

It seems that you don't understand how it works. 56% (ish) voting No to independence in the referendum doesn't actually count for anything, but 50% (ish) voting for the SNP in the general election means that the Scottish people have spoken and the once in a generation pledge is no longer valid.

Don't forget it now also represents the "settled will of the Scottish people"....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Not wishing to take sides here, but the referendum result was won with a majority .....wasn't it?

As I keep repeating we have all moved on since the referendum.
Over 100,000 SNP members, 10,000 turn up to hear Nicola speak, 56/7 seats out of 59 in a GE.
All facts that the Unionist seem to have turned a blind eye to.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Don't forget it now also represents the "settled will of the Scottish people"....

In parliamentary legal terms 'the settled will of the Scottish people' means the party with the majority of Scottish seats at Westminster.

 

[Hobbit]

In parliamentary legal terms 'the settled will of the Scottish people' means the party with the majority of Scottish seats at Westminster.

Like the settled will of the people last Sept...

As to The Cons voting against Nicola's amendment, and Labour abstaining. That White Paper was agreed by all parties last Nov, but then the SNP decide they want an amendment. Obviously the SNP are honouring both the settled will of the people in last Sept's vote and the agreement it made last Nov.

Mind you don't walk into something with those blinkers on.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Good soap box bit in Wings regarding UK Labour politicians.
Some clever replies.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbox-on-a-boat/#more-72336

 

[Hobbit]

Good soap box bit in Wings regarding UK Labour politicians.
Some clever replies.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbox-on-a-boat/#more-72336

Some good responses but what saddens me about an article like this is the comment about right wing media. Not saying he's wrong, but how accurate is the left wing media? The leftie's get all indignant about how accurate the right wing media is, whilst the rightie's do the same with the left wing media.

And then you get some people saying that all the media is controlled by the rightie's, saying the media is run by the establishment. Really?

Where is the balance in all of this? I think its about belief, and depending on which side of the political spectrum you're on determines what you believe in.

But sadly its not about honesty. How many politicians from all the parties lied when put under the spotlight during the election? Maybe lied is a little strong, maybe circumspect with the truth - guilty by omission(?).

 

[GreiginFife]

As I keep repeating we have all moved on since the referendum.
Over 100,000 SNP members, 10,000 turn up to hear Nicola speak, 56/7 seats out of 59 in a GE.
All facts that the Unionist seem to have turned a blind eye to.

Sorry Doon but onky about 55% have moved on. The other 45% are still holdjng on to an unsustainable ideology.
I think you fail to grasp that not everyone that voted SNP at the GE actually want independance.
100,000 member is an impressive number, however even assuming that only 3m of the approximate 5.6m population are eligibke to vote, that represents a paltry 3% of the voting population. 3%!! Not so impressive. And certainly not the majority of Scottish people.
You keep talking of biased media and then link to Wings Over Scotland, a more pro independance media outlet I am yet to see. Pro anything usually tends to be bias, its just that bias in favour of someone's point of view is often disregarded as bias. A bit like positive discrimination in a way.

The independance race has been run, a winner emerged and its time you really DID move on. Politics will continue to be questionable by any party, still waiting to see where the oil tax would have gotten us at a barrel rate of $60 and why your wee Nicola remains so tight lipped on that particular front... Not every Scot is as impressed and enamoured by the Starch faced wee po-bag Doon.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

To be fair Colchester, Scottish politics is a total irrelevance to most of us, except for Doon on here who thinks of another topic every time the last one peters out, to keep the subject alive !

...and for as long as it remains a total irrelevance to most of the rUK the call for a further referendum on independence will remain and views such as expressed will be grist to the mill for the Nationalists.

 

[Hobbit]

...and for as long as it remains a total irrelevance to most of the rUK the call for a further referendum on independence will remain and views such as expressed will be grist to the mill for the Nationalists.

I agree, and it does seem harsh to say that Scotland's politics is an irrelevance to those south of the border. But how many Scots care about what goes on in Bristol? By viewing either with a parochial view, rather than recognise the UK as one entity, does no one any favours.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree, and it does seem harsh to say that Scotland's politics is an irrelevance to those south of the border. But how many Scots care about what goes on in Bristol? By viewing either with a parochial view, rather than recognise the UK as one entity, does no one any favours.

It seems to me a pretty core part of the ongoing SNP independence narrative. For as long as the rUK (English for arguments sake) electorate don't really care about what is going on in Scotland (as seems, to be the case) then why would/should their Westminster MPs? And if their Westminster MPs don't care, and choose to ignore the SNP Westminster representation or refer to it in a dismissive or disparaging way - the conclusion (from the SNP perspective) is obvious. And that isn't to wait for Labour in the UK to sort itself out - how long might we have to wait for that?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I agree, and it does seem harsh to say that Scotland's politics is an irrelevance to those south of the border. But how many Scots care about what goes on in Bristol? By viewing either with a parochial view, rather than recognise the UK as one entity, does no one any favours.

Personally I think it's terrible that Mark Bradshaw has been sacked from the council cabinet for his opposition to selling off the docks. I certainly hope he manages to oust George Ferguson in next year's mayoral election.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Long Ashton seniors playing Castle Coombe the morra, should be a home banker.

 

[c1973]

It's like missing a bus, this thread; you see it disappearing into the distance thinking 'oh well, that's that then', and lo and behold.....another one turns up shortly afterwards.......same destination and quite often the same driver as well.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Sorry Doon but onky about 55% have moved on. The other 45% are still holdjng on to an unsustainable ideology.
I think you fail to grasp that not everyone that voted SNP at the GE actually want independance.
100,000 member is an impressive number, however even assuming that only 3m of the approximate 5.6m population are eligibke to vote, that represents a paltry 3% of the voting population. 3%!! Not so impressive. And certainly not the majority of Scottish people.
You keep talking of biased media and then link to Wings Over Scotland, a more pro independance media outlet I am yet to see. Pro anything usually tends to be bias, its just that bias in favour of someone's point of view is often disregarded as bias. A bit like positive discrimination in a way.

The independance race has been run, a winner emerged and its time you really DID move on. Politics will continue to be questionable by any party, still waiting to see where the oil tax would have gotten us at a barrel rate of $60 and why your wee Nicola remains so tight lipped on that particular front... Not every Scot is as impressed and enamoured by the Starch faced wee po-bag Doon.

Greig,
I watch Wings, The Independent and The Spectator for a ' balanced view' strange that eh.
What Scottish news media would you suggest I view to get an 'un-biased' view ?

 

[GreiginFife]

Greig,
I watch Wings, The Independent and The Spectator for a ' balanced view' strange that eh.
What Scottish news media would you suggest I view to get an 'un-biased' view ?

There is none more balanced than the rest, therein lies the problem with media. Most of your links go to Wings who are so nationalist its almost frightening havent seen many to Indy or Spectator. Your balanced view always seems to be to poke holes in the current government all with a very nationalist slant. Never once poking holes in SNP policy (such as unsustainable council tax freezes), seemingly holding them up as demi-gods to be revered (OK, exagerated slightly - but not much)
I have kept very quiet on all things poloitical and independence outside of my circle of friends and will now resume that stance. Good evening.

 

[SocketRocket]

Neither of those courses are in Bristol :rofl: