Just when you think America can’t get any crazier…

[YandaB]

You witnessed 7 shootings ?
I’d call that bad luck
Most Americans I’ve known or worked
With have never seen one.

Blimey, most implies to me a significant minority have! I don't know anyone that has.

 

[Brads]

Should have said all.
My mistake.
The few I’ve known or worked with , none have seen a shooting or at least never said they have. Shootings weren’t a big part of any conversation.
Except the guy from Colorado. He was a big gun fan.

 

[cliveb]

Should have said all.
My mistake.
The few I’ve known or worked with , none have seen a shooting or at least never said they have. Shootings weren’t a big part of any conversation.

I too have never met an American who's seen a shooting.
But that's not the point.
I've never met a Brit who's witnessed a kid being stabbed, or someone dying of a heroin overdose. Doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

 

[Brads]

Yes, but what’s your point ?
The discussion was about a fear of being shot.
Many people are shot in the uk
Illegally held guns are a real problem here. Im still not scared of being shot.
Many more here are stabbed, I’m not scared of that either.
Many Americans are shot but it’s not a daily fear for them either.
Unless of course that’s the type of lifestyle you live and the company you keep.

 

[cliveb]

Yes, but what’s your point ?
The discussion was about a fear of being shot.

Ah ok, if you're saying nearly all Americans have no fear of being shot, then fair enough.

I do however recall my very first trip to the USA (on business) back in the 1980s makes me wonder if they are really that relaxed about it...

I picked up a hire car at Boston airport and arrived at a toll booth on the Mass Pike.
I had chosen the wrong booth - it said "85 cents, exact change only".
I only had dollar bills and was wondering what to do. As I hesitated, the car behind honked the horn.
So I got out and walked back to explain the situation, and the driver was very polite and helpful.

When I arrived at work and related the tale, it was explained to me that the reason he was so polite was that he thought I might have a gun.
Which sounds to me like he might have been concerned about the possibility of being shot.

 

[IanM]

...or he was just a nice bloke!

 

[Brads]

Like most Americans.

 

[Foxholer]

...
There is also more than just a suspicion that most people who call themselves Christians have never read much of the Bible.

And while most use the OT, sourced and with often debatable translation, from selected ancient 'testament' as a moral and historic document, their approach to the NT (except Revelations) is different - a historic commentary events by participants or documentation of subsequent 'preaching/opinions'. Revelations is a peculiar document and very much in the style of the US Evangelical preachers.

Raise you further: What does the Psalm 137:9 verse mean in the Bible that says “happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks”? - Quora

My view on that, as in many selected quotes, is that it's text taken out of context to justify the view of the person quoting.
If you read it with an open mind, I believe you'll see that the entire Psalm 137 is a 'song' about victory in battle - and the resultant atrocities that often occur(ed). It's not a lesson on what should happen, but what, unfortunately, does happen.

 

[Foxholer]

Nope not really.
People seem terrified of guns for no good reason.
I wouldn’t think for a second about getting shot in America.
What I do think though is their right to keep firearms is a positive and something that should never have been removed here.
It was only removed here to stop workers revolting after the Second World War.

I think you mean the First World War! Though there were other reasons that coincided - compliance with Paris Arms Convention agreements and the Anglo-Irish war. And there was also earlier legislation restricting access to pistols.
US's 'right to bear arms', enshrined in their constitution, is actually a reflection of old English law, though who and what has varied through the centuries.

 

[stefanovic]

And while most use the OT, sourced and with often debatable translation, from selected ancient 'testament' as a moral and historic document, their approach to the NT (except Revelations) is different - a historic commentary events by participants or documentation of subsequent 'preaching/opinions'. Revelations is a peculiar document and very much in the style of the US Evangelical preachers.

Are you suggesting the Bible is an historical document? Who wrote any of it? It's a mish-mash of redacted texts from a dark age, supplemented by medieval superstition.
Did you know Jesus was a dragon slayer? I wonder why that infancy gospel didn't make it into the printed version.
In any case there never was such a person.
Jesus was not a Jewish name. He was both man and god. Both Jew and Gentile.
A man everyone has heard of but nobody has ever met. That included the gospel writers.

If you read it with an open mind, I believe you'll see that the entire Psalm 137 is a 'song' about victory in battle - and the resultant atrocities that often occur(ed). It's not a lesson on what should happen, but what, unfortunately, does happen.

Your brains will fall out if you read the Bible with an open mind.

 

[Foxholer]

Are you suggesting the Bible is an historical document? Who wrote any of it?
...

Wikipedia is your friend!

...
Jesus was not a Jewish name. He was both man and god. Both Jew and Gentile.
A man everyone has heard of but nobody has ever met. That included the gospel writers.
...

Indeed, Jesus is a Hebrew name.
The rest may be your belief, but it doesn't match opinions of 'virtually all scholars of antiquity'.

FWIW. There's absolutely no point arguing about 'faith'. Sooner or later, it finishes with/to the unresolvable 'but I have faith' point!

 

[Fade and Die]

 

[SocketRocket]

...or he was just a nice bloke!

I've just spent a month in America, my Son's Wife of 45 died of cancer leaving him and his three young Sons without a Wife and Mother. Every other day for two months a different local family have delivered a meal for them and actively checked if they can help out in any other way, I was humbled by their generosity. Tell me again how all Americans are these gun waving sycophantic airheads.

 

[Foxholer]

I've just spent a month in America, my Son's Wife of 45 died of cancer leaving him and his three young Sons without a Wife and Mother. Every other day for two months a different local family have delivered a meal for them and actively checked if they can help out in any other way, I was humbled by their generosity. Tell me again how all Americans are these gun waving sycophantic airheads.

Firstly my sympathy, especially to your son and his family for the loss of such an important part of family...
That generosity doesn't surprise me. While my experience of Americans is pretty/very limited, it's one of amazement about how helpful/giving they can be. Seems that while attitudes across communities can be extreme, attitudes within each communities are very bonding/'teamy'.

 

[bobmac]

Tell me again how all Americans are these gun waving sycophantic airheads.

Did anyone say that?
However, there are more guns than people in the US.
I've just watched 5 minutes of Fox News.....no wonder the country is in such a mess.

 

[Ethan]

I've just watched 5 minutes of Fox News.....no wonder the country is in such a mess.

If you rinse your brain in Dettol, it might get rid of some of the FOX News

I've just spent a month in America, my Son's Wife of 45 died of cancer leaving him and his three young Sons without a Wife and Mother. Every other day for two months a different local family have delivered a meal for them and actively checked if they can help out in any other way, I was humbled by their generosity. Tell me again how all Americans are these gun waving sycophantic airheads.

Good for them, but I doubt you are arguing that one anecdote can comment on a nation of over 300 million. We don't know if these people are part of the same religious community, race, social class, work together etc etc. But few people in trouble in the US can rely on such generous support from their community.

As for gun waving airheads, well you can't argue with the prevalence of gun ownership or the frequency of mass shootings. It doesn't mean everyone is always trying to shoot someone. I have been in the US over 100 times on business and spent decent amounts of time there on some longer stays. The diet of media, especially TV is really very different, and even more people there live in bubbles of their own partisans belief systems, of whatever flavour. Just because we get some of the same TV shows, don't think it is similar with a different accent. The average American is less well informed than the average UK citizen, and that is saying something considering what some of the latter think. Many Americans are incredibly parochial in their views, know nothing about anywhere outside the US, and have this built in idea of America being the greatest country and the rest of the world a bunch of either liberal Godless LGBTQ+ loving heathens (Europe, Oz), commies who want to bring socialism to the US (Russia and North Korea), or religious nutters (and definitely not the right type of religion) bent on the destruction of the US (most of the rest). A lot in the middle think the US west and east, especially north east, coasts are also Godless heathen hellholes.

The US has a different social contract with the people. There is minimal welfare state, no free healthcare for many, very harsh hire and fire employment rules, little vacation. If you aren't doing well in the US, it is because you aren't trying hard enough. The sense of community is different. Sadly, it is going the same direction in the UK.

 

[cliveb]

Many Americans are incredibly parochial in their views, know nothing about anywhere outside the US....

Indeed.
Good friends of mine moved to Massachusetts many years ago and were amused that on the evening TV news, at the end it said: "and now for international news - in California..."
And this is Massachusetts - hardly an unenlightened redneck state.
They now live in France.

I will however say that every American I've had dealings with was very friendly.

 

[Ethan]

Indeed.
Good friends of mine moved to Massachusetts many years ago and were amused that on the evening TV news, at the end it said: "and now for international news - in California..."
And this is Massachusetts - hardly an unenlightened redneck state.
They now live in France.

I will however say that every American I've had dealings with was very friendly.

Yes, although often rather superficially so. I used to wind up US colleagues by responding to them saying 'Hey, how are you?" by responding "Glad you asked, not so well, actually ..." and watching the horror on their faces as they tried to find a way out of an unintended conversation.

 

[SocketRocket]

If you rinse your brain in Dettol, it might get rid of some of the FOX News



Good for them, but I doubt you are arguing that one anecdote can comment on a nation of over 300 million. We don't know if these people are part of the same religious community, race, social class, work together etc etc. But few people in trouble in the US can rely on such generous support from their community.

As for gun waving airheads, well you can't argue with the prevalence of gun ownership or the frequency of mass shootings. It doesn't mean everyone is always trying to shoot someone. I have been in the US over 100 times on business and spent decent amounts of time there on some longer stays. The diet of media, especially TV is really very different, and even more people there live in bubbles of their own partisans belief systems, of whatever flavour. Just because we get some of the same TV shows, don't think it is similar with a different accent. The average American is less well informed than the average UK citizen, and that is saying something considering what some of the latter think. Many Americans are incredibly parochial in their views, know nothing about anywhere outside the US, and have this built in idea of America being the greatest country and the rest of the world a bunch of either liberal Godless LGBTQ+ loving heathens (Europe, Oz), commies who want to bring socialism to the US (Russia and North Korea), or religious nutters (and definitely not the right type of religion) bent on the destruction of the US (most of the rest). A lot in the middle think the US west and east, especially north east, coasts are also Godless heathen hellholes.

The US has a different social contract with the people. There is minimal welfare state, no free healthcare for many, very harsh hire and fire employment rules, little vacation. If you aren't doing well in the US, it is because you aren't trying hard enough. The sense of community is different. Sadly, it is going the same direction in the UK.

You comment on the minimal welfare state. My Son has been given $700 a month for each of his three sons up to the age of 18, not sure if you would get this in the UK. If he decides to stop work and stay at home he can claim another $1000 a month. OK, I understand your points but my experience is that to brand the country as full of gun toting Devil may care isolationists is extreme.

 

[IanM]

Americans are culturally very different from us, we both see it as odd as we share a (sort of) common language.

I worked for an American Software Co and spent my entire life explaining cultural differences to both the American and British boards.

What we see as "whooping and hollering" is them expressing thanks or delight. We see it (incorrectly) as bogus.

Conversely we had a Californian, just out of university, did a presentation in Gloucester to an IT Help Desk. Afterwards, they all filed out and just said thank you. She was practically in tears as she thought she'd bombed. I had to explain she'd done blooming well to get any reaction at all out of an IT Helpdesk.

It's the same the world over.

As for South Africa, well, ....????