The_Squire
Head Pro
Here in South Wales the joining fee at my club was £250 and the yearly fee is £1000. I don't think that's too bad for two courses when some other clubs around the area are in the region of £700+ per year for one course.
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SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
I have to disagree herb.....
Firstly - what is a modest joining fee and reasonable membership fee in your eyes? I don't think you can be a wide sweepng in that - I think you'll find there is/should/and always will be a marked difference from those courses 'down south' where there are lots of people and therefore more golfers to those 'oop north' where there are less people and less golfers - there is still something called suppply and demand these days....
Some clubs are probably raking in far in excess of the amounts you mention - but after deductions there probably aren't many that show anyway near a profit from memberships alone, and the extra business from catering, green fees etc which provides some additional revenue helps them get to an almost break even point...
Golf Club Sponsorship - really like what? Someone paying for the scorecards to have their name on it - thanks that saved the club about £500!!
Pro shop - I have never met a poor golf pro but all the money goes into his pocket and the club pays him handsomely by way of a retainer to turn up and take said money
You can spend alot or a little on your golf course but the old addage involing peanuts and monkeys rings true, and if you want a decent golf course you need to spend decent money, which in some cases is well over half a million....
Value for money is the term I think you are looking for....if Homer pays £1200 a year for membership thats £25 a week - the amount he plays, practices, socialises at Royal Ascot is exceptional value for money.....I live about 2 miles from Ascot and would be the perfect club for me to join - I don't play in the winter so thats 20 weeks out and go away on holiday for 5 weeks a year = that's half the year gone...so I'm now £50 a week - the most I will play there I would day would be once a week - so you're looking at £50 a round, but I suspect there are members of RA, and indeed many other clubs (some would say the good members!) who are paying £2/3/4 hundred pounds a round to join but it is the fact there is a JF to 'rejoin' when their situation/circumstance/ability changes that makes them continue to pay the membership and the club to 'function' year on year....
Golf Clubs are not like leisure clubs and not enough people understand this....being able to jump in and out of clubs doesn't help the 'hardcore' members, who in their minority probably to the most to keep the club afloat - golf is not, never has, and never will be a cheap sport......
There are different types of golfer, and different types of clubs to suit those golfers, their needs and their finances - fid the club that suits you, make sure that you are getting 'value' from it and join - you pays your money and you takes your choice....if you don't like the JF mentality then don't pay it but then don't complain that you can never get on, the course is rubbish, there are no midweek competitions etc etc....
There are too many golf courses but not enough decent ones - hence why if you want to play good golf, you have to pay good money.....
and breathe........
theeaglehunter
Tour Winner
SammmeBee I agree 100%, my earlier post explained in greater depth!
Parmo
Tour Winner
Times are changing, if clubs want to continue to cream golfers for cash then in the end they will lose out, take JF for example, many very good clubs have dropped them because there main supply of members are general working folk, so numbers equal money in their case, you still get the elitist type of courses who have wealthy members to cream and hence the reason why they pick only members with cash, with the exception of cat 1 players, as they need some decent players to cover the wealthy poor ones.
I agree, there are too many golf courses, but with this comes situations like JF and them being dropped allowing working golfers the oppotunity to play club golf without losing £500-£1000 in joining fees.
tbh I wouldnt pay over £70 a round with the exception of St. Andrews old. After reading the top 100 courses the other month and seeing some clubs wanting £475 for 36 holes, its just stupid money and something most golfers wouldnt dream of paying. If clubs want to put normal folk off playing "their" courses then there are other ways to do so without having a GF they you could buy a pacific island with, and if a club uses a snobbish approach then tbf I wouldnt want to play it anyway, golf has opened up and the golfing world should use this not try and close the doors again in my eyes.
It could be a lot worse in the UK, look at Spain, they are stuggling yet still asking top notch prices for average courses.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Some clubs exist to make money, others are members clubs. My club is a members club, and they are hardly 'creaming' the members. The fees charged are sufficient for the club to run, with a slight excess to allow for contingency. Our fees are £1000, and the joining fee is about £600. This ties members in for a time, but enables the business to plan for the foreseeable future. We have a waiting list, so clearly it is a strategy that works. We have about 750 members, so income is about 3/4 of a mill, before societies, bar, social, etc. This is clearly what it takes to run a decent club, without making anyone rich in the process.
DCB
Well-known member
Here in Scotland we're lucky that golf is a working mans game. There are the 'Elite' clubs which can and do have a pricing structure ion place to limit who they have as members and who they have playing on their course.
However, most clubs have to forecast their annual budget very closely indeed. The costs associated with running a course and a clubhouse are rising all the time. Greenkeeping costs rise, energy costs rise so if you want a well lit, warm clubhouse then you have to stump up to the supplier of your utilities. Most clubs have more staf these days. The days of the Club Secretary being a retired member who does it for the love of the club are gone. A forward thinking club needs a good Club Manager / Administrator who can do many tasks that an old style secretary couldn't do.
The joining fee where stillin evidence is to help the club budget for all sorts of works that need done in a year.
There are of course many courses that can and do make a good return on their visitors fees but these are all still budgeted for a year. Have a year as wet as we have just had and you are going to fall below budget without any chance of making that up easily.
There are clubs that are dropping or reducing the joining fee but this will need to be offset some other way if the clubs till want to keep the course and the clubhouse in good order.
However, most clubs have to forecast their annual budget very closely indeed. The costs associated with running a course and a clubhouse are rising all the time. Greenkeeping costs rise, energy costs rise so if you want a well lit, warm clubhouse then you have to stump up to the supplier of your utilities. Most clubs have more staf these days. The days of the Club Secretary being a retired member who does it for the love of the club are gone. A forward thinking club needs a good Club Manager / Administrator who can do many tasks that an old style secretary couldn't do.
The joining fee where stillin evidence is to help the club budget for all sorts of works that need done in a year.
There are of course many courses that can and do make a good return on their visitors fees but these are all still budgeted for a year. Have a year as wet as we have just had and you are going to fall below budget without any chance of making that up easily.
There are clubs that are dropping or reducing the joining fee but this will need to be offset some other way if the clubs till want to keep the course and the clubhouse in good order.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Sammmebee
Five words we don't usually share - "I totally agree with you"
Your post is spot on. Royal Ascot is expensive for what it is but is a maturing course and so I know a large percentage of the money I contribute in fees is being used to maintain the course to a high playing standard (rarely temp greens and never temp tees) and is being invested in making sure the course matures into a real test in a few years.
I play every competition possible including midweeks in the Summer and am always up there hitting balls. I normally play two rounds at weekends in the summer and once in the winter.
Lets say 6 months (24 weeks) x 2 rounds = 48
Evening golf in summmer - say twice a week for 3 months = 24 rounds
Once a week in winter = 25 rounds
That = 107 rounds minimum / 1200 = 11.21 per round. Plus the use of the practice facilities and the pleasure from a drink and a laugh with my mates equates to pretty good value for money in my book.
My club operates a DD scheme. I agree the first year is painful as it is in most clubs with a joining fee but the way I looked at it was by paying by DD the money came straight out anyway, and more importantly I knew that from the 2nd year on that cost would be halved (no J/F to pay). You need to find a club you are prepared to stick around for a few years to get value for money. If you only join for a couple of years and then move on of course it will become expensive if you have to pay a J/F every time.
Five words we don't usually share - "I totally agree with you"
Your post is spot on. Royal Ascot is expensive for what it is but is a maturing course and so I know a large percentage of the money I contribute in fees is being used to maintain the course to a high playing standard (rarely temp greens and never temp tees) and is being invested in making sure the course matures into a real test in a few years.
I play every competition possible including midweeks in the Summer and am always up there hitting balls. I normally play two rounds at weekends in the summer and once in the winter.
Lets say 6 months (24 weeks) x 2 rounds = 48
Evening golf in summmer - say twice a week for 3 months = 24 rounds
Once a week in winter = 25 rounds
That = 107 rounds minimum / 1200 = 11.21 per round. Plus the use of the practice facilities and the pleasure from a drink and a laugh with my mates equates to pretty good value for money in my book.
My club operates a DD scheme. I agree the first year is painful as it is in most clubs with a joining fee but the way I looked at it was by paying by DD the money came straight out anyway, and more importantly I knew that from the 2nd year on that cost would be halved (no J/F to pay). You need to find a club you are prepared to stick around for a few years to get value for money. If you only join for a couple of years and then move on of course it will become expensive if you have to pay a J/F every time.
Parmo
Tour Winner
No, I meant they are creaming new members to keep existing members subs down, which is obvious. My issue with joining fees is that if a club is well kept there is no issue about member retention as the club sells itself, I don't see how blackmailing people by coughing up joining fees to stay or join a way forward other than an elitist culling process.
I am not slating people paying them, if they want to throw away money its theirs to do so, but I feel the days of them are coming to an end and to class any course which has them better than one that does quite ignorant (not that you have).
HTL
Tour Winner
My club has got rid of joining fees, introduced 2 4 1 on membership! And are trying to get OAPs to join. I am not happy as the course is stupidly slow and full of grumpy hackers as it is.
Next club I join will be very different.
Next club I join will be very different.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
My club is a private members club. It has to raise its own revenue to exist. We have a bond scheme in existance since we were forced to move from the middle of Ascot racecourse as a way of members buying into the club and to raise immediate revenue to build the clubhouse as part of our deal with the Crown Estates and Ascot Authority. We still offer bonds and buy purchasing them you are entitled to a reduction in your annual subs.
As a private club we rely on a full membership. Sadly in the current climate and because of the move to a longer tougher course we have lost members who a) can't afford it, b) find the new course too touch (seniors) or c) just wanted to join another club.
That money is accounted for when plans are drawn up to cost the work to be done in the next financial year. We have always charged a joining fee even when we were on the racecourse and it is even more important now as we have to provide every penny ourselves. People are aware of the initial costs when offered membership so it is hardly a hidden charge. Sadly most of the private clubs around Berkshire charge a joining fee. You can join clubs affiliated to municipal courses for a fraction of the cost but then have to factor in the cost of green fees. If you look at my sums £11.50 per round can't be beaten on any pay and play round here. If you double that to take into account a joining fee £23 per round is still the going rate for weekend play.
Joining fees are a staple cost of becoming a member. They have been around for years and so I don't see a huge problem with paying them when you join. Before people jump on the "you can afford it" bandwagon, I was actually unemployed for 7 months during the year I rejoined Ascot and had to srimp and scrape and whack up the credit card to cover my first years fees.
As a private club we rely on a full membership. Sadly in the current climate and because of the move to a longer tougher course we have lost members who a) can't afford it, b) find the new course too touch (seniors) or c) just wanted to join another club.
That money is accounted for when plans are drawn up to cost the work to be done in the next financial year. We have always charged a joining fee even when we were on the racecourse and it is even more important now as we have to provide every penny ourselves. People are aware of the initial costs when offered membership so it is hardly a hidden charge. Sadly most of the private clubs around Berkshire charge a joining fee. You can join clubs affiliated to municipal courses for a fraction of the cost but then have to factor in the cost of green fees. If you look at my sums £11.50 per round can't be beaten on any pay and play round here. If you double that to take into account a joining fee £23 per round is still the going rate for weekend play.
Joining fees are a staple cost of becoming a member. They have been around for years and so I don't see a huge problem with paying them when you join. Before people jump on the "you can afford it" bandwagon, I was actually unemployed for 7 months during the year I rejoined Ascot and had to srimp and scrape and whack up the credit card to cover my first years fees.
viscount17
Money List Winner
bit off topic, but I don't remember your course as too tough, Homer. OK, I wasn't very good but that was me - any chance of a return if I come down for the PGA again? 
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Viscount,
Anytime you are in the area mate there is always a game. It is tough in the sense we went from something like a 5400 course to a much longer one even off the yellows. There are a few holes that need a good carry off the tee which some of te seniors struggled with and it is a bit hillier in places which is why we lost so many.
Anytime you are in the area mate there is always a game. It is tough in the sense we went from something like a 5400 course to a much longer one even off the yellows. There are a few holes that need a good carry off the tee which some of te seniors struggled with and it is a bit hillier in places which is why we lost so many.
RGuk
Tour Winner
Oooh, there's some hot replies on this one.
I can't see the issue with a JF. Around here, they don't exist a.t.m. everywhere has spaces.
I paid one to join mine, it's now free, but hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Seems an entirely logical idea to me, stops tigger-like behaviour with folks jumping to and from clubs messing up the books for all concerned.
If it's expensive, there's a reason.....If you want to join a good club/course, but the JF is pricey.....stay a member for longer!!!
I can't see the issue with a JF. Around here, they don't exist a.t.m. everywhere has spaces.
I paid one to join mine, it's now free, but hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Seems an entirely logical idea to me, stops tigger-like behaviour with folks jumping to and from clubs messing up the books for all concerned.
If it's expensive, there's a reason.....If you want to join a good club/course, but the JF is pricey.....stay a member for longer!!!
Basher
Tour Winner
My club is considering scrapping the joining fee in order to get more bodies through the door. To be discussed at a forthcoming meeting.
Many will disagree because they will think "Why should they get away with it when I had to pay!"
Dunno, money's getting tight for many people now. Maybe a good way of raising much needed revenue at the club. The accounts are not exactly buoyant at the moment.
Been up this morning for a practise session.
Beautiful bright sunny day, bit cold and wet underfoot but a few people enjoying a round.
Many will disagree because they will think "Why should they get away with it when I had to pay!"
Dunno, money's getting tight for many people now. Maybe a good way of raising much needed revenue at the club. The accounts are not exactly buoyant at the moment.
Been up this morning for a practise session.
Beautiful bright sunny day, bit cold and wet underfoot but a few people enjoying a round.
DCB
Well-known member
I feel that the danger of scrapping the joining fee will lead to a bigger than normal turn-over in new membership. Instead of joining a club that you want to be a member of, there will be many who join a club for a year and then either move on to the next 'good deal' or they go back to '2for1 voucher' golf because they don't like what they find within a golf club.
It's the slippery slope to insolvency. Too many people willing to pay too little, so the casualties will be the weaker (financially) clubs.
Clubs need a huge turnover just to pay the bills without creating surplusses to plough back in to the course or clubhouse.
I know of at least one club in my area that had in excess of 35% of it's new members last year who did not renew this year.
Remember a club always has a small percentage of natural churn every year anyway, so thats a lot of new members to find to fill the spaces left by last years 'new members'
It's the slippery slope to insolvency. Too many people willing to pay too little, so the casualties will be the weaker (financially) clubs.
Clubs need a huge turnover just to pay the bills without creating surplusses to plough back in to the course or clubhouse.
I know of at least one club in my area that had in excess of 35% of it's new members last year who did not renew this year.
Remember a club always has a small percentage of natural churn every year anyway, so thats a lot of new members to find to fill the spaces left by last years 'new members'
When I joined my club 3 years ago I paid out 2 x annual subscription (this is the joining fee) plus the years fees (2100 in total) am I unhappy? not really, everyone else had to pay to get in at one point also) I would be a bit pissed if they started letting people in with no joining fee.
T
thecraw
Guest
Did I really type that??? That said club is struggling big time and I have left there losing £1k in the process.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
It can happen very quickly Crawford.
There are two or three 'established' clubs really struggling in our area.
As I said earlier, decisions taken [or not] during a financial downturn can mess up a club for many years.
Never a time for clubs to be arrogant.
There are two or three 'established' clubs really struggling in our area.
As I said earlier, decisions taken [or not] during a financial downturn can mess up a club for many years.
Never a time for clubs to be arrogant.
richart
Major Champion
My course fluctuates between having a joining fee and not.
We have one at the moment as we are getting a lot of new members, so from a purely short term financial point of view it is worth having. When I joined five years ago, there was no joining fee, just a £250 loan, which was repaid in full when you left. As this meant the Club had a potentially huge liability, they asked for members to consider waiving it for some green fees, and I was happy to do so. I believe we have a good retention rate for new members, but this probably reflects on the course, facilities and general friendliness of the Club, rather than the joining fee.
If there had been a joining fee when I joined, I would not have bothered. I hadn't played for years and was not sure I would enjoy playing again. Certainly would not have forked out over £2000 on the off chance. Think I was probably in the minority though, as a lot of our members are coming from nearby courses that seem to be closed more often than not over the winter.
One problem with the new members is that they all want to play, and the course has suddenly become very busy. Haven't been able to get in the carpark the last few Saturdays. Hopefully the novelty will wear off.
We have one at the moment as we are getting a lot of new members, so from a purely short term financial point of view it is worth having. When I joined five years ago, there was no joining fee, just a £250 loan, which was repaid in full when you left. As this meant the Club had a potentially huge liability, they asked for members to consider waiving it for some green fees, and I was happy to do so. I believe we have a good retention rate for new members, but this probably reflects on the course, facilities and general friendliness of the Club, rather than the joining fee.
If there had been a joining fee when I joined, I would not have bothered. I hadn't played for years and was not sure I would enjoy playing again. Certainly would not have forked out over £2000 on the off chance. Think I was probably in the minority though, as a lot of our members are coming from nearby courses that seem to be closed more often than not over the winter.
One problem with the new members is that they all want to play, and the course has suddenly become very busy. Haven't been able to get in the carpark the last few Saturdays. Hopefully the novelty will wear off.
Karl102
Journeyman Pro
Where's that Stu?!? You bored with the banter at LP?!?
Ours has been reduced to £100 from nearer 600/700 and the yearly fee is c£900... Similar to others we are members owned...
Ours has been reduced to £100 from nearer 600/700 and the yearly fee is c£900... Similar to others we are members owned...
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