Jeremy Corbyn

[chippa1909]

I agree that it is a ridiculous thing to say but is it any worse than Corbyn talking about bombing Syria (that's not what it's about it's about bombing IS targets in Syria) or suggesting that those that are in favour of airstrikes are supporting "the killing of innocent civilians" or "on their heads be it" if airstrikes cause an IS attack in the UK?

Of course it's worse. The guy is supposed to be a statesman.
The pig thing was bad enough, but to suggest that millions of the electorate are terrorist sympathisers takes it to a whole new level.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Of course it's worse. The guy is supposed to be a statesman.
The pig thing was bad enough, but to suggest that millions of the electorate are terrorist sympathisers takes it to a whole new level.

So why is it worse to suggest that millions of the electorate are "terrorist sympathisers" than to suggest that millions of the electorate "support the killing of innocent civilians"?

 

[Sweep]

Of course it's worse. The guy is supposed to be a statesman.
The pig thing was bad enough, but to suggest that millions of the electorate are terrorist sympathisers takes it to a whole new level.

And Corbyn is supposed to be a statesman in waiting. Now That IS funny.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

ah - we are believing that Brimstone is that much more accurate than anything the French or the USA have that it will make a difference. Well OK, we can believe (btw - context for my statement - I used to be a missile guidance, control and navigation systems engineer - I designed these things so know how they work)

There is nothing about believing - it's the truth
For someone who knows how they work you appeared to blurt out a statement that was false

Every bit of information tells you the ability of Brimstone and how no one else has the capability - Paperboy who worked on it confirms it , Defence Journals confirm it , the US and UK defence confirm it

 

[Sweep]

Just heard that on the news - staggering thing to say

And I remain absolutely not convinced. I have heard nothing in respect of an outcome that amounts to much more than wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is that we do nothing and the problem will go away and those nice IS peeps will be all turn out to be quite a nice friendly bunch after all, leave us alone and may even send us a Christmas card.

 

[USER1999]

I still can't believe that adding our 6 knackered old tornados to the full might of the US, Russia, and a bit of France, is really going to make a difference, even if, and it's a big if to me, our missiles are more accurate.
And they probably all work off the same intelligence, which is inherently flawed. Well the Russians and French do anyway!

 

[Sweep]

Of course it's worse. The guy is supposed to be a statesman.
The pig thing was bad enough, but to suggest that millions of the electorate are terrorist sympathisers takes it to a whole new level.

What he is actually reported to have said is don't walk through the lobby with terrorist sympathisers. No reference to those who don't support air strikes as terrorist sympathisers. Harsh thing to say, but when Corbyn promotes an IRA admirer to the job of Shadow Chancellor and brings back Livingstone who says the 7/7 bombers laid down their lives, I have to admit I was beginning to think the same thing myself. That's how far Corbyn has dragged down Labour in 11 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I still can't believe that adding our 6 knackered old tornados to the full might of the US, Russia, and a bit of France, is really going to make a difference, even if, and it's a big if to me, our missiles are more accurate.
And they probably all work off the same intelligence, which is inherently flawed. Well the Russians and French do anyway!

Won't work of the same intelligence and the middles are that much accurate

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There is nothing about believing - it's the truth
For someone who knows how they work you appeared to blurt out a statement that was false

Every bit of information tells you the ability of Brimstone and how no one else has the capability - Paperboy who worked on it confirms it , Defence Journals confirm it , the US and UK defence confirm it

To trot out your well used phrase, prove it. Where's the evidence other than you repeating it ad nauseum


Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil image: http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
In the presicion bombing carried out by the RAF in the fight against IS in Iraq - mistakes = zero , collateral damage = zero. The RAF are not the US who clearly regualry make mistakes.

Show me where there are zero mistake, zero collateral damange and more importantly no innocent victims. Otherwise you seem to be building a stance to simply continue arguing with others on here, who like me differ in their opinion

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

To trot out your well used phrase, prove it. Where's the evidence other than you repeating it ad nauseum


Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil image: http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
In the presicion bombing carried out by the RAF in the fight against IS in Iraq - mistakes = zero , collateral damage = zero. The RAF are not the US who clearly regualry make mistakes.

Show me where there are zero mistake, zero collateral damange and more importantly no innocent victims. Otherwise you seem to be building a stance to simply continue arguing with others on here, who like me differ in their opinion

I already asked Phil this question (albeit in a slightly less argumentative way I hope). He referred to a defence secretary on the radio, which was then backed up by my own searching. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-fallon-claims-been-zero-6922729

 

[Old Skier]

ah - we are believing that Brimstone is that much more accurate than anything the French or the USA have that it will make a difference. Well OK, we can believe (btw - context for my statement - I used to be a missile guidance, control and navigation systems engineer - I designed these things so know how they work)

Happy to draw a wage for design the kit that wipes people out but not happy if they are used. Quite a jump from systems engineer to the NHS.

 

[Old Skier]

I still can't believe that adding our 6 knackered old tornados to the full might of the US, Russia, and a bit of France, is really going to make a difference, even if, and it's a big if to me, our missiles are more accurate.
And they probably all work off the same intelligence, which is inherently flawed. Well the Russians and French do anyway!

#
If you think the Tornado is a knackered bit of kit you obviously are not aware of the AC that Russia is using in Syria.

 

[daverollo]

Too many people (politicians mostly) are trying to over analyse what is being asked and allowing mission creap to step in and use it as a political football to undermine the government.

Put simply:
"Do you support our allies request to extend the targeted bombing, against IS, that we are doing in Iraq to be extended into Syria"

It's not a case of how effective it will be, it's as much about showing solidarity and support with our allies against an evil that is intend on wiping out the West and imposing medieval laws on all that come under their control.

What annoys me more is the rhetoric about what the end game will look like, how will we remove Assad. Do they not remember that parliament debated that 2 years ago and decided against getting involved with another regime change in the middle east, taking the view that the Syrians can sort it out themselves.

OUTCOME?
Close to 300,000 killed and 5,000,000 displaced and making a hasty retreat to Europe!

How much worse can it get if we do nothing? and how bad does it need to get before we do something?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is nothing about believing - it's the truth
For someone who knows how they work you appeared to blurt out a statement that was false

Every bit of information tells you the ability of Brimstone and how no one else has the capability - Paperboy who worked on it confirms it , Defence Journals confirm it , the US and UK defence confirm it

Ah - apologies - it's dual mode these days - with laser guidance. That does make a difference - though laser targeting does rely on the delivery platform hanging around for a bit after missile launch or their being a target designator on the ground; and laser guidance is subject to the same issues that laser range finders have in respect of attenuation - in Syria that would be airborne sand. The active RF seeker is certainly impressive - beyond that I cannot say even if I could recall any further details - which I can't.

I note that the seeker was designed for the North German Plain scenario against a assault by thousands of Russian tanks when discrimination between tanks was not any issue - it would take out a tank - and the scenario gave plenty to choose from - hence the addition of laser guidance to give a dual-mode function that enables individual vehicles to be targeted.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

To trot out your well used phrase, prove it. Where's the evidence other than you repeating it ad nauseum


Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil image: http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
In the presicion bombing carried out by the RAF in the fight against IS in Iraq - mistakes = zero , collateral damage = zero. The RAF are not the US who clearly regualry make mistakes.

Show me where there are zero mistake, zero collateral damange and more importantly no innocent victims. Otherwise you seem to be building a stance to simply continue arguing with others on here, who like me differ in their opinion

Accepting that Brimstone can be more accurate at hitting specific vehicles - you have to target the correct vehicle and then make sure that that information gets to the missile before it is launched - though there will be an uplink to the missile associated with the laser guidance.

The wider issue is simply that those civilians on the ground finding themselves collateral damage will not be too worried - even if they knew - about the nationality of the aircraft that bombed them. We the UK will be blamed for the death of innocent civilians under collective responsibility.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What he is actually reported to have said is don't walk through the lobby with terrorist sympathisers. No reference to those who don't support air strikes as terrorist sympathisers. Harsh thing to say, but when Corbyn promotes an IRA admirer to the job of Shadow Chancellor and brings back Livingstone who says the 7/7 bombers laid down their lives, I have to admit I was beginning to think the same thing myself. That's how far Corbyn has dragged down Labour in 11 weeks.

Though Corbyn has been blasted by the press and the Tories by his not dissimilar comments being twisted and taken out of context, and Cameron enjoyed that happening and making hay out of it. Tough Davie.

 

[Old Skier]

Cameron Was an idiot to say it but there are enough quotes and interviews out there that support the view that some of our present political élite were only to happy to show support for various terrorist groups. When your a minor minion you can get away with it but move up the ladder and all your quotes and little picture opportunities come home to bite you.

One of the things about Corbyn you have got to admire is how openly two faced he can be having spent the whole of his political career openly defying party policy and the whip he now complains that others are not following the wishes of the party.

 

[Old Skier]

Why would Corbyn and the SNP want a 2 day debate when they have already decided to vote action the action.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ah - apologies - it's dual mode these days - with laser guidance. That does make a difference - though laser targeting does rely on the delivery platform hanging around for a bit after missile launch or their being a target designator on the ground; and laser guidance is subject to the same issues that laser range finders have in respect of attenuation - in Syria that would be airborne sand. The active RF seeker is certainly impressive - beyond that I cannot say even if I could recall any further details - which I can't.

I note that the seeker was designed for the North German Plain scenario against a assault by thousands of Russian tanks when discrimination between tanks was not any issue - it would take out a tank - and the scenario gave plenty to choose from - hence the addition of laser guidance to give a dual-mode function that enables individual vehicles to be targeted.

I'm amazed that someone with such knowledge blurted out that initial statement now

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I already asked Phil this question (albeit in a slightly less argumentative way I hope). He referred to a defence secretary on the radio, which was then backed up by my own searching. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-fallon-claims-been-zero-6922729

Read that with interest. The tone of the article did seem to cast doubt and I personally don't believe it can happen. It isn't good spin to say of course there will be innocents killed but I would argue that absolutely zeron innocents, zero collateral damage etc, is simply unachievable no matter what our resident weapons experts and the politicians say