Jeremy Corbyn

[Old Skier]

All I need to know is:

(a) in what way will the UK joining USA, France and Russia in the current and ongoing bombing campaign change anything in Syria for the better (forget the tosh the Tory-boy on QT spouted about UKs super-duper accurate Brimstone missiles as if the US or France don't have the same capability as he pretended they don't) and...
.

Beaten to it, perhaps this is an area where you need to do a little homework or refrain from commenting.

Crabs always loved to show us the effects of this bit of kit on a Panzer, of course we never were overly concerned as we only seem to go out when it was raining so we knew we were safe.

 

[Old Skier]

Loved the comment from a Glasgwegian when the defense minister mentioned Glasgow may be a possible target.

'The only terrorist attack in Scotland was dealt with by a baggage handler and a traffic warden.'

And I bet he'd be the first to complain when he found out that we didn't have enough traffic wardens and baggage handlers.

 

[Hobbit]

...and so I hear someone in the middle of his castigation of JC over his position on Syria decide to support his argument by throwing in Trident renewal as further evidence of the need to bomb Daesh. They want to obtain a nuclear bomb and so we must keep ours. That isn't great logic and seems to typicfy the loginc of those that support bombing. It's emotional, historic and histrionic - almost hysterical. I do wonder if Daesh got a bomb and used it - who and where would we attack with our Trident missiles. Too much of the logic just doesn;t work.

All I need to know is:

(a) in what way will the UK joining USA, France and Russia in the current and ongoing bombing campaign change anything in Syria for the better (forget the tosh the Tory-boy on QT spouted about UKs super-duper accurate Brimstone missiles as if the US or France don't have the same capability as he pretended they don't) and...

(b) precisely how bombing Daesh targets in Syria will reduce the risk of atrocity on UK mainland.

So, when the Ford Transit van driving through central London explodes with the nuclear bomb IS are striving to gain, and 4 million people die. And then another 4 million, including those in Farnham start dying from radiation poisoning in the next month... IS consider you, your family, your neighbours and your fellow countrymen to be legitimate targets. And before you say you're not on the frontline, go and ask a Parisienne or someone who was on the Tube during 7/7.

What would bombing achieve? It might, with the intelligence gathered, hit the nuclear buying team. It might hit the group being trained to deliver terror to european cities. It might hit the next group of terrorists that would behead hostages. It might hit a group that would be guilty of genocide in the next town they invade.

There will be collateral damage, but I'd rather choose collateral damage in Syria than 129 Londoners gunned down and blown to bits whilst they were at a concert or out for a meal.

America practiced isolationism in the 30's and early 40's, and look what happened to the Far East and Europe. Don't be so naive as to think that a head in the sand attitude will see the problem go away. As for negotiating with them. Negotiate with who? Who is their leader(s)? What country do they represent? Anyone who can behead the 72 yr old Head of Antiquities and then blow the ancient city to bits isn't rational. Best thing to do with a rabid dog is kill it.

 

[Fish]

Re bombing.
The Paris bombers were French and lived in Paris, the London Bombers were English and lived in London.
Does that mean the allies should start bombing those two cities..'

What a stupid comment, many of the home grown terrorists have traveled to Syria for training and returned, this is an area which needs plugging, hopefully the bombing of training camps and HQ's does this whilst their over there and coupled with a better worldwide tracking and ID alert system with No Fly sanctions against "known" individuals we can all go about our daily business without s second thought.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Y

Some reports are saying that IS in Syria are using the same tactics as the Viet Cong and living in tunnel communes under the villages.

Re bombing.
The Paris bombers were French and lived in Paris, the London Bombers were English and lived in London.
Does that mean the allies should start bombing those two cities.

Loved the comment from a Glasgwegian when the defense minister mentioned Glasgow may be a possible target.

'The only terrorist attack in Scotland was dealt with by a baggage handler and a traffic warden.'

One should really check ones facts, the 7/7 bombers all lived well outside London. Leeds , Aylesbury , they met up at Luton before travelling to London.

Fortunately the terrorist attack at Glasgow airport was foiled partially by the terrorists own incompetence , but if those gas canisters had gone off, I doubt you would be so smug. Scotland got lucky that day

 

[ColchesterFC]

Y

One should really check ones facts, the 7/7 bombers all lived well outside London. Leeds , Aylesbury , they met up at Luton before travelling to London.

Fortunately the terrorist attack at Glasgow airport was foiled partially by the terrorists own incompetence , but if those gas canisters had gone off, I doubt you would be so smug. Scotland got lucky that day

And while three of them were British born to Pakistani immigrants the other was Jamaican. And I'm fairly sure that some of the Paris bombers were living in Belgium. But let's not let the facts get in the way.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ok just for Doon's benefit, This is an Elbow

 

[MegaSteve]

Judging by the words of Michael Fallon the governments main concern is "loosing face on the international stage"...

 

[Old Skier]

Nice friendly chat between him and Marr today, shame Marr wouldn't press him on what his solution to the Syria problem is. That's Andrew Marr card carrying Labour member.

 

[rosecott]

Judging by the words of Michael Fallon the governments main concern is "loosing face on the international stage"...

You put the phrase "loosing face on the international stage" in parenthesis suggesting a direct quote. I don't recall Mr Fallon saying that.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Ok just for Doon's benefit, This is an Elbow View attachment 17754

Oops sorry I forgot the English terrorists lived in the Midlands/Yorkshire and traveled down to London.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Oops sorry I forgot the English terrorists lived in the Midlands/Yorkshire and traveled down to London.

And also that one of the "English" terrorists was Jamaican.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

And also that one of the "English" terrorists was Jamaican.

Just trying to make a simple point ..........at what source do the UK start bombing ?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Just trying to make a simple point ..........at what source do the UK start bombing ?

It's easy to make any point you like if the facts you are using to make that point are wrong.

For instance, Colchester United are the best football team in the world because they won the Premier League and Champions League double last season.

To answer your question we start bombing in Syria and continue until we have wiped out the training camps and all the murdering scum that are part of or support IS.

And to answer SiLH's question....

"precisely how bombing Daesh targets in Syria will reduce the risk of atrocity on UK mainland"

If we take out all the murdering scum that are in the training camps and HQ's we are bombing then there are less of them to carry out attacks. Less people to carry out attacks = fewer attacks.

 

[Jacko_G]

Y

One should really check ones facts, the 7/7 bombers all lived well outside London. Leeds , Aylesbury , they met up at Luton before travelling to London.

Fortunately the terrorist attack at Glasgow airport was foiled partially by the terrorists own incompetence , but if those gas canisters had gone off, I doubt you would be so smug. Scotland got lucky that day

Yip I agree 100% and find it very crass that it's now a topic of humour.

 

[MegaSteve]

Nice friendly chat between him and Marr today, shame Marr wouldn't press him on what his solution to the Syria problem is. That's Andrew Marr card carrying Labour member.

Possibly because there isn't actually a solution to the Syria problem...

As you have pointed out yourself, I believe, the politics of the region change on an almost daily basis...

 

[MegaSteve]

You put the phrase "loosing face on the international stage" in parenthesis suggesting a direct quote. I don't recall Mr Fallon saying that.

Apologies, improper use of parenthesis on my part...

But Mr Fallon did say something very similar....

 

[Old Skier]

Possibly because there isn't actually a solution to the Syria problem...

As you have pointed out yourself, I believe, the politics of the region change on an almost daily basis...

Exactly, but Corbyn fails to say what he considers are our options as per Wings and his tribute band. Walking away won't work IMHO but maybe that's exactly what Corbyn wants to do. Until he and his supporters say, we will never know.

Bombing is is not the final solution but it is an option until a final solution (if there is one) can be achieved.

 

[Ethan]

What a stupid comment, many of the home grown terrorists have traveled to Syria for training and returned, this is an area which needs plugging, hopefully the bombing of training camps and HQ's does this whilst their over there and coupled with a better worldwide tracking and ID alert system with No Fly sanctions against "known" individuals we can all go about our daily business without s second thought.

But do you consider it a stupid comment when someone frames the pro-bombing argument as necessary to prevent 8 million deaths in the UK with nukes?

Gee, I would guess we should bomb today. They might be getting the nukes with Amazon Prime.

Also, lets assume these weapons are very accurate. They hit exactly what you aim at, no collateral. Fine. That only leaves the question of how sure you are that you are aiming at who you think you are aiming at, and that they are whatever yup of baddy you think they are. That all relies on intelligence which hasn't proven to be too clever in the recent past.

Much of the anxiety against bombing isn't that anyone is concerned for the welfare of these scumbags, but rather that we doubt, based on experience, that it will be as easy as it sounds to surgically remove all the key people and leave an improved situation.

If IS are taken out, where does the west stand on Assad and the various factions fighting him? Do we then say, up to you guys now. Seeya!

 

[MegaSteve]

Exactly, but Corbyn fails to say what he considers are our options as per Wings and his tribute band. Walking away won't work IMHO but maybe that's exactly what Corbyn wants to do. Until he and his supporters say, we will never know.

Bombing is is not the final solution but it is an option until a final solution (if there is one) can be achieved.

Think its fairly safe to assume the 'solution' Ken has been pedalling over the last few days will be similar/same to Jezza's views...