Jacket and Tie nonsense !!!

[Deleted member 18588]

Clubs that have a J&T rule generally only apply it after a certain time or in certain areas of the clubhouse. Get out by 6pm or don't eat in the dining room. What's the problem?

Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes.

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.

 

[Jimaroid]

People see what they want to see. I have still not seen a valid reason to enforce a rule that people should wear J & T.

The reason is that a group of people formed a club and created the rule of their collective choosing.

Looking for deeper justification is nonsense, it'd be like asking why you shouldn't wear red clothes to a home match at Goodison. There's no reason why you physically couldn't, but you'd come across as a complete and utter wally that's not abiding with the spirit of the club.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes.

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.

Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If I keep applying that logic, why not wear it at your home club? Do you not respect there?

There is a flippancy to my comment but it gets to the hub of this whole issue. Certain people believe it is showing respect. The rest of us don't link J & T with respect at all. I show respect by being polite to people, far more important than wearing a jacket, although I have no doubt you are also polite so please do not take that as a slight :thup:

I haven't played any home matches - but if I did then I would.

The main point to me on all such matters (as it is on all matters of etiquette) when visiting a club is not whether I am comfortable that I am paying sufficient respect to my hosts - but whether my hosts are happy with the respect being shown - whatever rules they have in place.

And if it is not clear to me what might be expected of me I would tend to dress and act towards what might be the most reasonably expected of me - and in most situations that would be wearing J&T - and being unfailingly polite - especially towards their lady members

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.

Only recently gone at my Club.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I haven't played any home matches - but if I did then I would.

The main point to me on all such matters (as it is on all matters of etiquette) when visiting a club is not whether I am comfortable that I am paying sufficient respect to my hosts - but whether my hosts are happy with the respect being shown - whatever rules they have in place.

And if it is not clear to me what might be expected of me I would tend to dress and act towards what might be the most reasonably expected of me - and in most situations that would be wearing J&T - and being unfailingly polite - especially towards their lady members

I totally get the follow the rules, but you’re not paying respect, you are simply following the rules, where’s their respect to you allowing you freedom of choice in what you wear.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes.

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.

No I'm not, I like the traditions and history associated with golf. I could easily ask the same of you, why do you want to change something just because you don't like it?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I totally get the follow the rules, but you’re not paying respect, you are simply following the rules, where’s their respect to you allowing you freedom of choice in what you wear.

If that is the culture of the club then great - but it is 100% their choice and their decision - it is their club. You play their course and enjoy their clubhouse and hospitality then you respect their wishes without question.

 

[Orikoru]

It seems like some people just being told what to do and having arbitrary rules to follow for the sake of it. It is the British way I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.

I played an old traditional club last year that had a men only bar AND a ladies only bar. It also had a mixed bar. Gives people plenty of choice :thup:

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If that is the culture of the club then great - but it is 100% their choice and their decision - it is their club. You play their course and enjoy their clubhouse and hospitality then you respect their wishes without question.

Everyone “get’s” that the reason, the question is why?

Would those Seniors behave any different or be less respectful to each other if not wearing J&T for those 3 matches?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Everyone “get’s” that the reason, the question is why?

Would those Seniors behave any different or be less respectful to each other if not wearing J&T for those 3 matches?

It doesn't matter 'why' - if the clubs wants it so then that is all that matters.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No I'm not, I like the traditions and history associated with golf. I could easily ask the same of you, why do you want to change something just because you don't like it?

Presumably, therefore, you would be happy to play wearing a tweed jacket and a toe whilst only ever using hickory shafted clubs.

Unlikely I suspect.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I played an old traditional club last year that had a men only bar AND a ladies only bar. It also had a mixed bar. Gives people plenty of choice :thup:

Not really. If I am playing with my wife we can only jointly go into one out of the three bars. No choice at all. That really is a throwback.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Not really. If I am playing with my wife we can only jointly go into one out of the three bars. No choice at all. That really is a throwback.

I'm curious to know how many bars your club has? Probably 90% of the clubs in Britain only have 1 bar anyway

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm curious to know how many bars your club has? Probably 90% of the clubs in Britain only have 1 bar anyway

2 bars, general and a spike bar. The point is that anyone can go into either bar, there are no restrictions whether through gender or member / non member. Men and women, member or guest can go into 100% of our bars, that is the key point.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

2 bars, general and a spike bar. The point is that anyone can go into either bar, there are no restrictions whether through gender or member / non member. Men and women, member or guest can go into 100% of our bars, that is the key point.

Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.

 

[User101]

Dinosaurs r us 🤣🤣

 

[Orikoru]

Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.

lol you're not being serious are you? Mens and ladies only bars in 2018?? Unreal. :rofl:

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.

My club has 2 bars I can use. The same 2 bars for women as well. The club you refer also has 2 bars I can use, 2 bars women can use.

Check your maths , the number is the same. In addition, because it is 2018, my club has 2 bars a man and women can use together, that club has 1 bar a man and women can use.
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lol you're not being serious are you? Mens and ladies only bars in 2018?? Unreal. :rofl:

Yup