Itv leaders debate.

[Deleted member 18588]

Eden won 345 seats all on his own.

345 included National Liberals and Ulster Unionists.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

What are Labour thinking about? Role out Blair on the day of the STV leader debate in Scotland!

 

[Adi2Dassler]

345 included National Liberals and Ulster Unionists.

Ah, right.That makes my initial post correct again.I'm like that Labour defector, returning to my origins with head held high!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Sorry but I think you are vastly overrating that power, particularly when the author refers to the Press making it impossible for Milliband to govern.

Strange that those on the Left of centre were quick to decry the Murdoch inspired claim that "It was The Sun wot won it." and yet now those same people are complaining about the power of the Press.

Cannot both be right.

The right winger in the comments of Adi's post was mentioning something like it was the English Tory press and represented the English people.
I don't think so, 35% of the English people would be more accurate.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ah, right.That makes my initial post correct again.I'm like that Labour defector, returning to my origins with head held high!

Nay problem Adi.

BTW I enjoy this debate, back and forth, as whilst we are diametrically opposed on the Union we appear to share a high regard for democracy.

For example, if it is the will of the people , I see no reason why the independence issue should not be put to another vote.

However, if there are consequences for the whole of the UK the basis of that vote should perhaps be widened as to how the country as a whole and its constituent parts should be governed e.g Wales, Northern Ireland, the regions of England.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/po...-sturgeon-over-reaction-to-memo-leak-1.860986

Bad move from the man being touted in Scotland for the next PM.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/po...-sturgeon-over-reaction-to-memo-leak-1.860986

Bad move from the man being touted in Scotland for the next PM.

Can't see why it's a bad move ?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Nay problem Adi.

BTW I enjoy this debate, back and forth, as whilst we are diametrically opposed on the Union we appear to share a high regard for democracy.

For example, if it is the will of the people , I see no reason why the independence issue should not be put to another vote.

However, if there are consequences for the whole of the UK the basis of that vote should perhaps be widened as to how the country as a whole and its constituent parts should be governed e.g Wales, Northern Ireland, the regions of England.

I think the problem is we don't live in a democracy. The democratic opinions of people are not rightly represented at Parliament, and it won't change any time soon.FPTP results in a status quo for the two traditional parties taking turns to be govt, never with a mandate of a majority of the voting public.Until we're using PR we're living a two party dictatorship.

And to bang on about 79 again, a majority of the voting public had their democratic choice refused on the basis of a rule never used before or since!

The SNP/UKIP representation it utterly bizarre..SNP get 5/6% of vote with 45 seats.UKIP get 18% of vote for 2 seats!

So we can have a debate laced with spite and sarcasm and begrudged agreement on certain things on here all we want, the democratic process of The UK is a con.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I think the problem is we don't live in a democracy. The democratic opinions of people are not rightly represented at Parliament, and it won't change any time soon.FPTP results in a status quo for the two traditional parties taking turns to be govt, never with a mandate of a majority of the voting public.Until we're using PR we're living a two party dictatorship.

And to bang on about 79 again, a majority of the voting public had their democratic choice refused on the basis of a rule never used before or since!

The SNP/UKIP representation it utterly bizarre..SNP get 5/6% of vote with 45 seats.UKIP get 18% of vote for 2 seats!

So we can have a debate laced with spite and sarcasm and begrudged agreement on certain things on here all we want, the democratic process of The UK is a con.

Whilst I might feel that it is a little strong to totally dismiss our democracy I would broadly agree with your assessment. Our current system is better than a totalitarian state but it is still a long way from perfect.

The media seems wedded to the old bi-partisan FPTP system as has been witnessed throughout the last five years. Every small disagreement between the two Coalition partners has been seized upon as supposedly being an example of why coalitions don't work.

I would suggest that the opposite is the case as, by their nature, no two parties are going to concur on all issues. Like them or not I think that the Conservatives and Lib Dems leadership are to be congratulated for having accepted this and realised that, for the sake of the country, compromises have had to be made.

God knows what the media will make of it if, after this election, a "rainbow alliance" is needed to form a government.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Whilst I might feel that it is a little strong to totally dismiss our democracy I would broadly agree with your assessment. Our current system is better than a totalitarian state but it is still a long way from perfect.

The media seems wedded to the old bi-partisan FPTP system as has been witnessed throughout the last five years. Every small disagreement between the two Coalition partners has been seized upon as supposedly being an example of why coalitions don't work.

I would suggest that the opposite is the case as, by their nature, no two parties are going to concur on all issues. Like them or not I think that the Conservatives and Lib Dems leadership are to be congratulated for having accepted this and realised that, for the sake of the country, compromises have had to be made.

God knows what the media will make of it if, after this election, a "rainbow alliance" is needed to form a government.

Of course coalitions work, minority governments works.It results in compromise, finding middle ground, concensus.

Holyrood since it's inception has been a great example of how democracy should work.I'd be galaxies closer to being happy about The UK if it was federal and based on PR.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Of course coalitions work, minority governments works.It results in compromise, finding middle ground, concensus.

Holyrood since it's inception has been a great example of how democracy should work.I'd be galaxies closer to being happy about The UK if it was federal and based on PR.

I think an awful lot of Scots would agree with your last para. Adi.

It would also give a lot of parity to Lib/Dems and UKIP in England which would make it a more balanced country.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry but I think you are vastly overrating that power, particularly when the author refers to the Press making it impossible for Milliband to govern.

Strange that those on the Left of centre were quick to decry the Murdoch inspired claim that "It was The Sun wot won it." and yet now those same people are complaining about the power of the Press.

Cannot both be right.

Indeed! Those that decried the Murdoch claim were wrong (imo!)!

Not sure about making it impossible for Milliband to govern - once in power, he can simply ignore that element of the Press. But they are actually making it 'impossible for Milliband to get elected' - or at least trying!

It seems to me that th UK Electorate doesn't actually want a coalition. Much happier with either getting their own way, or complaining that they didn't. (Positive) compromise doesn't seem to sit naturally with most Brits!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Scottish Leaders debate tonight on STV.
I hope it does not turn into a cat fight between the two women.
Sturgeon v Lamont was not pretty in the referendum debate.

Tomorrow nights debate on BBC includes a very brave UKIP candidate.

 

[CMAC]

Scottish Leaders debate tonight on STV.
I hope it does not turn into a cat fight between the two women.
Sturgeon v Lamont was not pretty in the referendum debate.

Tomorrow nights debate on BBC includes a very brave UKIP candidate.

Ruth Davidson is in a different league and class so I doubt it.

Should be an interesting debate, pity its Ponsonby thats chairing

 

[Deleted member 18588]

It seems to me that th UK Electorate doesn't actually want a coalition. Much happier with either getting their own way, or complaining that they didn't. (Positive) compromise doesn't seem to sit naturally with most Brits!

Agree with that although, as much as it is a case of not wanting a coalition, it is also about not understanding consensus politics.

 

[Foxholer]

Agree with that although, as much as it is a case of not wanting a coalition, it is also about not understanding consensus politics.

True. That's where, by having a head-start, the Scots are 'better placed'. Westminster, mainly through PMQ, is seen as a conflict driven place, where actually most of the real work (by Select Committees) is significantly less so. HoL is also more consensual. Press attitudes don't help either! And, as I've stated before, the Lib-Dems haven't helped future coalitions by being rather too quiet about their 'achievements'. It appears they'll suffer because it too, though their predicted losses could be down to folk switching their 'protest' votes.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Blair enters the fray for Labour. Do they really need him pitching up and spouting off, especially in Scotland?

 

[c1973]

Blair enters the fray for Labour. Do they really need him pitching up and spouting off, especially in Scotland?

Depends, Homer.

Plenty of folks think he was a good leader, even in Scotland. He did get a lot of votes up here.

Plenty will think differently.

I reckon most folks will know who (if anyone) they are voting for anyway.
I guess it's just a case of a 'heavyweight' will get column inches and screentime, helping to get their message across.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Depends, Homer.

Plenty of folks think he was a good leader, even in Scotland. He did get a lot of votes up here.

Plenty will think differently.

I reckon most folks will know who (if anyone) they are voting for anyway.
I guess it's just a case of a 'heavyweight' will get column inches and screentime, helping to get their message across.

Fair comment. I guess anything that get's a party message will be viewed as good publicity although he's surely seen as a dinosaur in some quarters

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Good message from Blair though.

Anyone on here want the UK to leave the EU ?