Is Violence Ever the Answer?

[Fromtherough]

In a bar last night with some colleagues, a brash local took exception to one of our party. My colleague had genuinely done nothing, we'd not been there long enough when the first incident occurred. The guy is good looking and I don't think the local liked the fact he was attracting some female attention. Plus my colleague is really quiet, about 5'8" and slight whereas the local was 6'4", obnoxious and massive - so a classic bully situation. It was all handbags and intimidation and many situations orchestrated by the local were either ignored or we split them up. The bouncers warned the local a few times but we got the impression they knew him. We considered leaving but there was no where open nearby (that we knew of) and our pre paid mini bus that was taking us an hour or so home was unable to pick us up earlier.

As we were about to go the local barged into my colleague and pushed him shouting aggressively in his face then tried to grab him. At that my colleague delivered a left right combination which saw the local go down like a felled redwood. Neither the bouncers or the other locals did anything, just picked the local up. We had a word with the head doorman in case police would be called but he said they wouldn't and that they were well aware it was self defence and cctv would have captured incident anyway. It was weird. On the way home my colleague was gutted. Apparently when younger he'd been a decent level boxer, but avoided conflict at all costs and had never been in a fight out of the ring. We reassured him that he had no choice and it would likely have ended up in him getting hurt and us all fighting had he not acted. He wasn't so sure. Is violence ever the answer?

 

[Papas1982]

In a bar last night with some colleagues, a brash local took exception to one of our party. My colleague had genuinely done nothing, we'd not been there long enough when the first incident occurred. The guy is good looking and I don't think the local liked the fact he was attracting some female attention. Plus my colleague is really quiet, about 5'8" and slight whereas the local was 6'4", obnoxious and massive - so a classic bully situation. It was all handbags and intimidation and many situations orchestrated by the local were either ignored or we split them up. The bouncers warned the local a few times but we got the impression they knew him. We considered leaving but there was no where open nearby (that we knew of) and our pre paid mini bus that was taking us an hour or so home was unable to pick us up earlier.

As we were about to go the local barged into my colleague and pushed him shouting aggressively in his face then tried to grab him. At that my colleague delivered a left right combination which saw the local go down like a felled redwood. Neither the bouncers or the other locals did anything, just picked the local up. We had a word with the head doorman in case police would be called but he said they wouldn't and that they were well aware it was self defence and cctv would have captured incident anyway. It was weird. On the way home my colleague was gutted. Apparently when younger he'd been a decent level boxer, but avoided conflict at all costs and had never been in a fight out of the ring. We reassured him that he had no choice and it would likely have ended up in him getting hurt and us all fighting had he not acted. He wasn't so sure. Is violence ever the answer?

Imo yes.

He did nothing wrong at all from what you describe. By all means do all you can to avoid it, but it seems the other guy had it coming.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Obviously it was on this occasion and well done to your mate who put the local hard case in his place.

 

[User62651]

Old saying but I'd agree that 'no one wins a fight'.
Violence is not the answer, people should be above that, too many of these incidents end up with a victim collapsing, getting a bleed on the brain, eye damage, always followed by incriminations, regret, court cases for assault, trouble at work, stress, revenge etc etc. If an ex boxer hits someone with a left right combo that's dangerous, albeit you're saying in self defence for some big guy grabbing at him.
In my view your friend should have tried to restrain the assailant or avoid and let the bouncers do their job.

Welcome to nights out in Britain though. How many pubs/clubs have you ever gone into where there's a palpable air of 'it's going to kick off in here' with an edge to the atmosphere. Unfortunately alcohol brings out the worst in many people, aggression and invincibility being 2 traits it emboldens.
Too old for all that nights out stuff now but I don't miss it at all.

 

[tugglesf239]

I’ve been in more than my fair share of scraps.

I do agree now (in my late 30’s) that there are no winners. Historically you either get a good kicking or have to worry about the damage you did / May have done.

Reading the above your mate did the right thing but I know the guilt and remorse he is feeling.

Truth is though it was your mate or the bully that was going to get a crack. Rather the aggressor was panned our everyday of the week.

Interestingly I read in the paper that one of my Navy mates was jailed for three years this week for murder. Punched a lad in Derby and the lad cracked his head off the deck. One week later the lad died from a cardiac arrest and now leaves behind a wife and young kid.

An utterly horrible end to a situation that probably occurs a dozen times a night in every town or city around the uk.

Three year sentence seems very light to me personally. Mate or not he killed a lad even though I guarantee that was not his intention.

Two very different situations though and in now way I’m I comparing the two. My mate was the aggressor without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[clubchamp98]

Imo yes.

He did nothing wrong at all from what you describe. By all means do all you can to avoid it, but it seems the other guy had it coming.

agree here it’s a pity but sometimes it’s nessesary to protect yourself.
Guys prob got a shock and maybe learnt a lesson but I dought it.

Sounds like bouncers should have seen it coming though.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Bouncers should have intervened and ejected the bloke earlier, trouble is he may have waited outside till you left and got his mates in.

I’d say your mate did exactly the right mix of proportional self defence/and stopped the situation escalating.

One thing though, you are going to look on your mate with a decent amount of respect from now on,

Young , good looking, can handle himself ...... hate him already 😂😂👍

 

[Tashyboy]

There is a reason why he picked on a small un. He saw an easy target to build on his reputation of being a bully. Got what he deserved as a last option.
The fact said boxer was full of remorse said it all for me.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Sounds like the bully got exactly what he deserved.
Maybe he’ll think twice in future.

 

[Dellboy]

At a last resort yes.

Nowadays I try everything possible to avoid trouble, but if it's the only way to sort it, I say Crack on.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As a very last resort yes but from reading the story it didn’t seem a last resort and if the police did get involved I’m not sure self defence would have stood as whilst the guy did push and shout I don’t see that as justification to give him a combo to put him to the floor - would expect your mate would have been charged with something if the police got involved

 

[Khamelion]

As written above, the local bully picked on the smallest in the group, to big up his reputation and in getting knocked to the ground is well deserved.

I can safely say, I have only ever hit one person in anger, I'm not a pacifist by any means, but if I can avoid conflict or a fight I will, hitting someone has to be the very last resort. The one person I hit was during my school days, I'd have been 12 or 13 on the way home from football practice, the group of school bullies decided to choose me for their daily onslaught, I'd been pushed, teased, kicked, had various items thrown at me, but I'd let it go, but eventually I snapped, as one lad pushed me, I turned swung a punch and caught him square in the mouth, burst his lip. There was a moment when I thought I was going to get the crap kicked out of me, but the bullies just dropped to his backside, with his mates just looking. I turned and carried on walking home. I was never bullied again.

So violence is never the answer, but also sometimes it's the only answer.

 

[Khamelion]

As a very last resort yes but from reading the story it didn’t seem a last resort and if the police did get involved I’m not sure self defence would have stood as whilst the guy did push and shout I don’t see that as justification to give him a combo to put him to the floor - would expect your mate would have been charged with something if the police got involved

Having seen that scenario many times in pubs, I would guess the situation had escalated sufficiently, that if the group had ignored the local and walked past him, he would've just continued to push and shout at the lad and if that didn't get a rise, the local would've hit him.

I guess the lad took the prevention rather than cure route, but as you write, pushing and shouting don't really constitute a left right combo and self defence

 

[Pin-seeker]

Having seen that scenario many times in pubs, I would guess the situation had escalated sufficiently, that if the group had ignored the local and walked past him, he would've just continued to push and shout at the lad and if that didn't get a rise, the local would've hit him.

I guess the lad took the prevention rather than cure route, but as you write, pushing and shouting don't really constitute a left right combo and self defence

maybe the lad thought it would take a combo to put him down?

 

[Fromtherough]

As a very last resort yes but from reading the story it didn’t seem a last resort and if the police did get involved I’m not sure self defence would have stood as whilst the guy did push and shout I don’t see that as justification to give him a combo to put him to the floor - would expect your mate would have been charged with something if the police got involved

I agree, partially, which is why we talked to the head doorman. However, in my original post I can't have made it clear. My mate didn't react to any of the antagonasiation for nearly 2 hours off and on. After the local barged into him and was shouting aggressively in his face, he then tried to grab him. It was at this point my mate retaliated and I honestly think it was out of instinct.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree, partially, which is why we talked to the head doorman. However, in my original post I can't have made it clear. My mate didn't react to any of the antagonasiation for nearly 2 hours off and on. After the local barged into him and was shouting aggressively in his face, he then tried to grab him. It was at this point my mate retaliated and I honestly think it was out of instinct.

Yep I read what you posted but as hard as it is you just can’t react with violence when someone is antagonising you - just walk away , go to another pub if that’s what it takes and yes it is a pain but it will be even worse if your mate ends up being the one in trouble with the police because he reacted - it’s the old adage it takes a bigger man to walk away from the situation

But ultimately the bouncers should have thrown him out - 2 hours of antagonising behaviour and they didn’t do anything ?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Yep I read what you posted but as hard as it is you just can’t react with violence when someone is antagonising you - just walk away , go to another pub if that’s what it takes and yes it is a pain but it will be even worse if your mate ends up being the one in trouble with the police because he reacted - it’s the old adage it takes a bigger man to walk away from the situation

But ultimately the bouncers should have thrown him out - 2 hours of antagonising behaviour and they didn’t do anything ?

Phil, maybe in a perfect world, but in the harsh reality of day, a measured show of force has sorted the issue , avoided escalation and taught the idiot a lesson.

I agree that in a fight there are no winners, but some people need to be on the receiving end to try and get it into their thick heads as “turning the other cheek” has no affect

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, maybe in a perfect world, but in the harsh reality of day, a measured show of force has sorted the issue , avoided escalation and taught the idiot a lesson.

I agree that in a fight there are no winners, but some people need to be on the receiving end to try and get it into their thick heads as “turning the other cheek” has no affect

Don’t have the right to “teach someone a lesson “ - the harsh reality is the guys response was physical violence that would have meant him being charged with assault because a combination of punches putting a man on the ground isn’t self defence - people don’t have the right to give a “measured show of force” - that’s what the police are for.

Turning the cheek is the only response if the guy isnt physically attacking the person - that’s the harsh reality

 

[Pin-seeker]

So he should have waited for the other guy to attack him?
Phil this is the real world,turning the cheek could have resulted in him getting attacked.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree, partially, which is why we talked to the head doorman. However, in my original post I can't have made it clear. My mate didn't react to any of the antagonasiation for nearly 2 hours off and on. After the local barged into him and was shouting aggressively in his face, he then tried to grab him. It was at this point my mate retaliated and I honestly think it was out of instinct.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, imo, your mate was pushed to the point of fight or flight, whose to say the big guy wouldn’t of picked up a bottle or punched your mate to the ground outside the pub and done him some serious damage.
Fully accept your word that your mate was completely innocent in this and the other bloke got everything he deserved.
We can come up with allsorts of scenarios and what if, fact is, your mate defended himself.