Is this acceptable or not?

[medwayjon]

Was playing a game with a guy a couple of days ago (Im back from injury) and he wasn't having the best of days to say the least.

It was essentially a friendly game however added to the excitement was a quid per hole and a quid for a birdie or better.

The problem I had is that when said gent went into the rough, he was scooping his ball out with his clubhead to improve his lie. I remonstrated with him that this was a bending of the rules to say the least, he said that it was a friendly game and that I shouldn't be so anal. We ended up falling out.

What do you think??? I personally think that it was cheating, I do not cheat and don't expect my partners to cheat.

 

[theeaglehunter]

Agreed Jon. The fact that he said 'it is only a friendly' means that he knew full well what he was doing is against the rules and is therefore a cheat. Also anyone that does this in a friendly is a fool anyway, I take all rounds of golf as practice for playing in a competition so I therefore always play to the rules to the best of my knowledge and if I have a poor lie I see it as an opportunity to practice should this situation arise in a competitive match.

Did you finish the round afterwards? I bet it was nice and awkward when money was exchanged at the end.

 

[medwayjon]

We didn't continue, as I say we fell out, voices were raised etc and I told him outright that he was a cheat and I refuse to play with cheats.

 

[ColinR]

I dont blame you for calling him a cheat, you are 100% in the right.

What next "my ball is on the green but their is a hump I need to putt over, I'll just move it to the left a little"

 

[TonyN]

Yes, it is out of order, especially as there was money invlolved. Friendly or not, out of order.

Dont get me wrong, there have been times (during friendly games) the father in law has been upto his knee's in it with people behind and I have told him to take it out.

But in your situation, I would of done the same.

Fella in work say he played with a guy last week who
A) Took 5 of the tee and put down 6 on the card
B) when he was given a gimme after say 4 strokes, he would mark down a 4 instead of a 5. He says anythin inside a dinner plate is given, but he doesn't add what would be the holing putt. What the hell is all that about.
He now refuses point blank to play with him.

 

[RGuk]

No......I wouldn't expect anyone to take these liberties!!

 

[DCB]

Jon,

Golf is a simple game realy, 34 basic rules govern how we play our game. Unfortunately there are many who don't know the rules or don't see the need to play by the rules. I've always felt that the only one they are cheating is themselves if someone is knowingly and wilfully breaking the rules.

The situation you have described Jon has probably been replayed on many courses this weekend. Just make sure you don't end up playing alongside this chap again. Take care that he hasn't sullied your name and reputation in the club as he may well have played this way for years and may take umbridge that some "new kid" is telling him what can and can't be done on the course.

Dave

 

[brendy]

Jon, would I be right in saying this fella plays of a moderately high handicap? I dont mean to offend any high handicappers but ive seen this happen in practice and friendly fames before but the player usually ends up taking a noscore at that hole, playing for a quid a hole is also asking for trouble. A quid for the front, back and overall means a token for the win but noone will ever fall out over it. Potentially 20 quid a round is a bit extreme for regular golfers. To most of us Jon, 20 quid isnt very much money in the grand scheme of things but I think its too much for amatuer golfers, its about the win, not the money.

 

[Nico]

Jon,I would not consider a quid a hole and another for the bits as exactly social!!

You could be out £20-£25.

The blokes a cheat,pure and simple. Not acceptable,not at all, not now,not ever,no way.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A cheat is a cheat is a cheat. No excuse accepted. Only defence I can offer is the stakes may have been a bit rich for him and he was trying to do the best he could to makes sure he wasn't too out of pocket. Not an excuse kust an explanation.

Maybe limiting the bets to £2 on front, back nine and the overall result and perhaps a quid for birdies and sand saves may be more palatable if you join up with someone else.

End of the day he is only cheating himself and his conscience

 

[GB72]

The simple fact is that friendly or not, the rules of any sport do not change and if you do not play to the rules then it is cheating.

 

[BunkerMentality123]

I'm with you Jon, cheating is cheating and he's missing an opportunity to improve those types of shots.

Let's face it, we all hit it in the rough occassionally so you need to be able to get it out again

 

[billyg]

Moral of the story - don't lay down a nassau until you really know your playing partners. Quite often we 'bond' with people over a common interest- in this case golf - only to find that we have absolutely nothing else in common with them whatsoever.

I agree with your principled stand MWJ but would tread carefully in future as you're still fairly new there.

Let them play the game however they want , it's their loss and someone will catch them out in a medal sooner or later (but make sure it's not you of course).

When Mrs. BillyG and I play I have to occasionally point some rule or other out to her and then remind her that the decision to apply that rule remains at her descretion with the caveat that when she plays with 'The Slice Girls'(cringe) they will think less of her for not knowing the rules nor applying them correctly.

If I don't know how to apply a rule in a given situation and there are no playing partners nearby I will apply MORE penalty shots if i'm unsure and then clarify the situation at the first opportunity.I would rather sit in the clubhouse afterwards and laugh about what a putz I am for punishing myself needlessly than sit in the bar and kid myself i'm the mutts spuds.

FWIW - once you can kid yourself 'it doesn't matter' or 'its only a friendly' you've crossed a line with yourself and might as well pack it in there and then.

This guy you were playing with sounds like a complete (bleeping bleep) and someone to avoid in future in golf ...and in life.

 

[Parmo]

I agree he is a cheat, but if winter lays had been inforce what is the difference except season?

 

[brendy]

Parmo, lift clean and place is one thing but I suppose improving the surrounding area with the club is something else while scooping at it trying to move it.
Im not sure if the bloke didnt know the rules or just didnt care so cant really comment too strongly, either way is wrong I guess.

 

[USER1999]

Whilst I wouldn't cheat like this in a money game, I am not sure I agree that improving the lie in a meaningless knock about makes you an automatic cheat and all round bounder.

If I am just hacking it round with my mates on a Friday then if I don't want to play a shot, I won't. I might move it, chuck it back to the fairway, what ever. This doesn't mean I am a cheat, or that I would do it in a medal.

How many of us would play a shot that risks damaging a club or yourself when just out playing with friends for no money?

Doing it with a bet on is unforgivable though. For that he should be ostrasized.

 

[Parmo]

Whilst I wouldn't cheat like this in a money game, I am not sure I agree that improving the lie in a meaningless knock about makes you an automatic cheat and all round bounder.

If I am just hacking it round with my mates on a Friday then if I don't want to play a shot, I won't. I might move it, chuck it back to the fairway, what ever. This doesn't mean I am a cheat, or that I would do it in a medal.

How many of us would play a shot that risks damaging a club or yourself when just out playing with friends for no money?

Doing it with a bet on is unforgivable though. For that he should be ostrasized.

I concur, I sometimes do this when playing a round with my step son, if the ball is in the stew and its going to slow play down I will move it to an accetpable area and play my shot, I don't play in comps and I am still learning, but for cash it is out of order. I would have loved to have seen that argument though lol

 

[haplesshacker]

Golf is a simple game realy, 34 basic rules govern how we play our game. Unfortunately there are many who don't know the rules

Okay, so as a relatively new player, I am not aware of all the required rules, and often look to playing partners for a ruling. However they often don't know the answer and just give a load of fluff.

How about one of the golf mags (GM and TG are published by the same company), doing a free basic rules pocket guide to keep in the golf bag (pref on waterproof paper mind). A few free tees is okay, but when I've got a bag full of them anyway, I don't really find them that useful. Certainly in the yacht racing side of things there's the offical rule book, full of jargon and lingo, and there are simplified abridged versions for quick reference and to help learners understand the rules. Even to the point of explaining each rule in plain English as well.

Just a thought.

 

[billyg]

Golf is a simple game realy, 34 basic rules govern how we play our game. Unfortunately there are many who don't know the rules

Okay, so as a relatively new player, I am not aware of all the required rules, and often look to playing partners for a ruling. However they often don't know the answer and just give a load of fluff.

How about one of the golf mags (GM and TG are published by the same company), doing a free basic rules pocket guide to keep in the golf bag (pref on waterproof paper mind). A few free tees is okay, but when I've got a bag full of them anyway, I don't really find them that useful. Certainly in the yacht racing side of things there's the offical rule book, full of jargon and lingo, and there are simplified abridged versions for quick reference and to help learners understand the rules. Even to the point of explaining each rule in plain English as well.

Just a thought.

we were given the pocket R&A rule book by GM about 6 months ago. For an abridged simplifed version - there are many available on amazon.

I bought this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-Get-Drop-Rule...7902&sr=1-4



...which is a hoot to read but I still find myself digging into the 'straight' rules for clarification now and then.

bill

 

[Atticus_Finch]

The R and A will send you out a rule book for the price of the postage.

http://www.randa.org/index.cfm?action=ru...ftoken=75383772